Travel Agents Say MoneySaving Is Immoral!

Marigold123

I think this is a good thing for the travel industry, besides being a wake-up call.

I am a single parent with 3 children, one of whom has a disability, and due to our particular circumstances, I don't work. As a result, finances are usually pretty tight, and until a couple of years ago I had never been able to take my kids on a 'proper' holiday abroad. When I realised I could put together my own holiday package using the Internet, a whole new world (literally) opened up for me and my family.

We have managed to go abroad for either a week or 5 days every year since, with cheap deals at cheap times, and it has been a fabulous experience for all of us.

My point is that armed with the right information, even the poorest people can afford a holiday abroad now, if that's what they want. (My sister and I are taking our children, [5 kids, 2 adults], to a holiday park in Cambrils, on the Costa Dorada, Spain, at Easter [5 nights], for under £55 per person, including flights, and not counting buying our own food.)

I could be talking out of my !!!!!! here, but surely if more people travel, (and they will), as a result of it becoming more affordable, travel companies' profits will continue to rise. Expanding market = expanding profits. How can this be a bad thing for anyone, least of all the travel companies themselves?

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(I originally posted this on Martin's 'Is MoneySaving Immoral?' thread on the Grabbit board, and I wanted to reproduce it here.)

Marigold123 wrote:

Martin, people always complain when their game is rumbled. They'll get over it.

Your site is one of the most conscientious and moral places on the web that I've visited. You're a thoroughly honest and ethical bloke, and we all respect and love you for that.

(Everyone queue up for a bit of bonding, now. )

thelaughingpoliceman

It's about time the high street holiday firms joined us on planet earth!

I personally have never booked through them simply because of their exorbitant prices.

I have always got a cheap deal online and have never been disappointed.

If they charged fair prices in the first place perhaps people may feel that they don't need to haggle!

TRAVELMAN_2

Hello,

As an Agent I've posted at great lenght re:The trevor Maccdonald programme & HOW MSE'rs & board readers can get the best deals. Notice my signiture ' underoccupany does not exist & free places are a con?'

So-Domski-whilst i feel your commebt that '98% of the Travel Industry is bent' is a little 'sweeping' to say the least....the ethos behind what you say (under occ charges, extra fees, etc....) is CORRECT.

The thing to look at is different ways to bag a bargain as I have explored & posted about.

Also,,,,in the mad frenzy to bag a bargain-NOT ONCE IN THIS THREAD HAS PROTECTION FOR YOUR 'BARGAIN' BEEN MENTIONED. Ok...you may book with a 'british' looking site for accom-but if there registered office is abroad & they go bust or Hotel is overbooked-you are stuffed & have NO protection!!! I see some people on here are booking apartments directly with owners (GREAT idea if done the right way) & paying deposits to their bank account. WOULD YOU GIVE YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY TO A STRANGER IN THE STREET FOR SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE (ie just a web-site). I THINK NOT.

So, fellow MSE'RS in your quest for a bargain holiday deal doing it the MSE way (packaging) PLEASE PLEASE do not let the lure of a further tenner discount let yourself/your holiday your money be at risk.

I feel Martin could post on this as it's a big issue.

Ok....TEABAG 2002. Quote 'I feel the home based Agents are touting for business & taking advantage of less 'experienced' board members'??'

HELLO!!! Put up or shut up. Home based Agents (why is the 'home' bit mentioned-just what is the stigma to this?) are self-employed in the main & rely on repeat bookings & referrals. Many work for Companies that have an ATOL licence (won't go on but covered in other threads).Also, a further point here, MSER'S ARE NOT FORCED TO PM US OR ASK FOR HELP.

Now-ATOL-this not only gives the consumer complete protection BUT AS A TOUR OPERATOR ATOL HOLDERS GET GROUND HANDLERS RATES THAT NO TRAVEL AGENT OR MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CAN GET-hence better prices. Surely this is what this board is about?

Look at the help given to flip for his holiday to Lanzarote.The rates were only available to ATOL holders (as they were in Euros) hence the bargain price. Flip & MSE'R'S can ring ANYONE & I am not advertising at all-just putting my thoughts in.

So...teabag 2002-care to elaborate on how 'w'ere taking advantage' Thought this board was about saving money....which these people have.

As I said-I've made my thoughts clear on Martins' programme & think there is a lot of sound advice regarding PACKAGE deals.

But, again my favourite comment, when looking for a package 'think outside the box' & look at ALL ways to get that elusive deal! I'm sure Martin & other MSE'RS will agree!!!

One vey last point (promise!). Whilst we all gt involved with the haggling & ringing round & get caught up in the excitement (& it is a buzz lets face it) what happens if that great deal (where the Agent said 'just 4 seats left' & you thought 'yeah-you would say that!:) that you've got to the lowest price HAS SOLD OUT!! Surely better to have a discounted deal that to spend another hour to shave a tenner off to find IT'S GONE??!

Chris

rooo

It actually beggers belief that the Travel Industry could think like this. I cannot add to the case for MoneySaving in any better way than has been done already. I will just say that my family and another organised our own package holiday last year - in the middle of August, we paid 450 per family. That basically says it all - I would have been doing well to get one adult for £450. So if you can't haggle, vote with your feet and DIY!

Keep up the good work Martin - you have a band of merry men and women supporting you all the way!

TRAVELMAN_2

rooo wrote:

It actually beggers belief that the Travel Industry could think like this. I cannot add to the case for MoneySaving in any better way than has been done already. I will just say that my family and another organised our own package holiday last year - in the middle of August, we paid 450 per family. That basically says it all - I would have been doing well to get one adult for £450. So if you can't haggle, vote with your feet and DIY!

Keep up the good work Martin - you have a band of merry men and women supporting you all the way!

I agree Rooo...packaging (DIY) is the way to go in 90% of cases (not 100% as some families may want specific Tour Op things like Superfamily clubs..etc). Agents that are clued up to this & have ATOL licences already do this for people-it's the High Street Agents who push their sister companies products & only offer packages that will suffer. Well done with the price!

As mentined in my previous thread-DO look at the bonding & financial security aspect. If you can get the same price through someone that can put it under an ATOL (before I'm shot down in flames this is not an advert just good advice!) then EVERYTHING is covered-you've got the deal & the security.

peejay67

I think a lot of people are jumping on the proverbial bandwagon here. Slate travel agents for the sake of it. Just because Lord Trevor of The McDonalds has highlighted something that has been known for years.
Im a high street travel agent. I constantly get people coming in off the street saying theyve been offered a better price elsewhere. 50% of the time the price is not genuine. When it is, we all have the same margins we can go to. Best option if available, as Travelman says, is to package ourselves and 85% of the time we can beat the standard Tour Ops price for the same holiday.

As Ive said before, at the end of the day it is a buyers market. I can give as much advice and as many deals as I can to customers. If they choose to book elsewhere it is their choice. A lot of my clients are not interested in shopping around because they know they are recieving a good service and that Im not ripping them off. This is where an independent agent differs.

Because we are independent we are not owned by a major tour operator like First Choice or Thomson in the High Street. Those agents are pressurised and incentivised to sell their owner tour ops holidays because that tour op has been committed to the beds they have contracted and if they dont sell them they lose money. If a client is looking for a holiday to Lanzarote and goes into a Thomson shop, highly likely they will be offered a Thomson holiday. Likewise with First Choice and Airtours. If a client comes in to my shop they will be offered a number of choices dependent on their preferences. They can be assured that they are being offered the best deal on their requirements. It wouldnt necessarily be the cheapest, but the best deal on offer. There may well be a £99 deal allocated on arrival in Lanzarote, but I pride myself on the service I offer and there is no point in me selling something to a client when I know they are either taking pot luck, or they are going to complain when they return. Whats the point of tha? Im throwing away repeat business.
With all due respect the average 20 year old sales consultant working for Thomson is not thinking the same way as I do. Its my business, and I need it to survive.

If Tracey from Thomsons sells Mrs X a dodgy holiday, on her return she complains to Tracey. Tracey passes it on to her manager, and he passes it up the line. With me the buck stops here! Dont get me wrong I know full well not all agents are as I described "Tracey"!

To all the knockers of the Travel Agents, making claims we are making huge margins and charging people what we like. Dont forget the majority of the time we are controlled by the Tour OPerators and what they are charging.
Believe me I am the first to criticize Tour Operators over their ridiculous add ons and under occupancy supplements. First Choice are currently charging £12 for in flight meals. Would you pay £12 for that crap?

When you go in to Dixons, Boots, Safeways or any other High Street store do you question what their mark up is on their goods? You shop around and you get the best deal. If you want 2lb of potatoes, you can get them for 99p from Lidl, or you can get them for £1.29 from Sainsburys. Will the quality be the same? Will you go to the manager and say "ER...LIdl are doing potatoes for 99p..will you match it?" Course you wouldnt.

We are probably one ofthe few industries where you can get free advice and shop around for a deal, with free literature to boot. Can you imagine going into a solicitor getting free advice, using his services and then saying thanks for the advice but I'll use Jo Bloggs down the road. I think youd still get a bill from that solicitor.

I dont begrudge people the service I offer. Its a good one. Its fair, and if they want to go elsewhere they are welcome to do so, but are they guaranteed the same service, expertise and value from another agent. I sincerely hope so.

Dont put us down...we're not all bad.

PJ

biglugs

Does anyone still use a travel agent??
I find them unbelievably expensive and they add nothing to my holiday experience.
Last year we had a 3 week holiday touring the USA from Vegas to Grand Canyon and San Francisco and we booked the entire holiday on the internet or on the phone direct to the hotels.
We reckon we saved a fortune compared to using travel agents who quoted us stupid prices. Not to mention stupid restrictions that the AGENTS impose i.e. you can't have 3 children in your hotel room if you book through us (i.e. you HAVE to book two rooms) yet EVERY hotel we stayed at in the USA (about 11 in total) allowed us to do this when we booked direct.
As Corporal Jones would put it "they don't like it up em!"
Trying to say they should be paid more for beans because they offer a corner shop service (Mr Arkwright?) isn't going to stop people shopping at Tesco. This is a lean mean consumer world out here and these guys need to get with the programme.

peejay67

biglugs wrote:

Does anyone still use a travel agent??
Not to mention stupid restrictions that the AGENTS impose i.e. you can't have 3 children in your hotel room if you book through us (i.e. you HAVE to book two rooms) yet EVERY hotel we stayed at in the USA (about 11 in total) allowed us to do this when we booked direct.
As Corporal Jones would put it "they don't like it up em!"
Trying to say they should be paid more for beans because they offer a corner shop service (Mr Arkwright?) isn't going to stop people shopping at Tesco. This is a lean mean consumer world out here and these guys need to get with the programme.

Travel Agents do not impose restrictions in this case . Tour Operators and hoteliers do. THere is a difference. Sometimes it is genuine and for health and safety reasons. There are so many issues here that need to be discussed but would be very boring. Although you may think it is a scam saying you cant have 3 children in a room, it may well be that the Tour OP has only contracted rooms that sleep a max of four. THere may well be rooms available at that hotel that sleep up to five, but the contractor will contract the rooms he thinks he is most likely to sell.
WHere the agent has fallen down is they should ring the hotel direct to see if such rooms are available. Bear in mind you did say the magic words "IF YOU BOOK THROUGH US" therefore giving you the choice to book elsewhere.

In reply to your question do people still use Travel Agents. Im not sitting here just to watch traffic go by. Remember, not everyone has the internet, and of those that do, not all are confident using it, or confident using their credit cards on it.

PJ

TRAVELMAN_2

Agree with Pee-jay......I do feel for the staff in the High Street who are on desperately low wages (why else do banks/call centres advertise for staff in the recruitement section of the Travel Press??!) & have to make up their salaries with bonusses based on their own in house Tour Operator. THIS is where Martins technique does work, as the High Street (the Multiples not the independants) does generally just offer package hols & don't 'package-up' as specialist independants do.

As I've said before-packaging is the way to go in my opinion in most cases.

One VERY interesting point-I've not seen many posts SHOWING what they've saved & giving examples (may be I'm looking in the wrong place on the Forum?). us Brits as a nation don't feel comfortable with haggling (don't know why-interesting cultural thing??!)-could this be why not many posts on success stories? As an Agent-i'd be very interested to see what the High Street will give off!

An interesting aside here....one of my regulars-a very astute Yorkshire Lady-ALWAYS checks prices in Huddersfield Town centre with all 5 or so Agents-playing one off against the other (& then seeing what I can do!!!). This was yesterday....THREE of them point blank said 'no-we don't haggle/discount', 2 did, but when she went back to the 1st one with the 2nd Agents price they said-'sorry-we've people waiting who need advice, we haven't got time to play games-this is our price-do you want it??!'.

She asked them to double check the price-HOLIDAY HAD GONE. So.....wasted time for customer...Agents NOT playing the game-holiday lost! I got her fixed up (School feb Half-Term) in the end-but the apartment was not 100% in the location she wanted.

Surely a lesson there....???!!! Not saying don't do it but be aware of the pitfalls!

Chris

mystic_trev

I've just come back from two weeks in Egypt and covered all the major sites from Alexandria to Abu Simbel. I looked to see what I would have been charged for a similar "package" and found I'd saved over 30% and I stayed in better Hotels - and (of course) had the "flexibility" you can't get with a "package" I really can't undrestand why people don't do their own thing when booking a holiday - It's far more fun when you've done it yourself!

Sorry I missed the program Martin - but I was obviously on Holiday! Nice to see you've ruffled a few feathers!