725,000 public sector jobs face axe, economist warns

ILW

marklv wrote: »

Yours is a really stupid statement! So what is the army for, then? Playing? No, it's for military action, meaning killing armed enemies of the British state and accepting the risk of being killed by the latter.

I suppose that is the same as all them firemen who expect to get burned to death.

marklv

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

But do cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys count?

Your statement demonstrates your IQ level very well. You should brush up on French history - and bear in mind that at various periods before the 20th century the French dominated most of Europe.

If you are referring to WW2, the fact is that France was beaten fair and square in the field - they had no choice but to negotiate an armistice. France didn't have vast overseas lands from which to continue the war, unlike Britain.

PS - I'm not French and have no links with that country.

marklv

ILW wrote: »

I suppose that is the same as all them firemen who expect to get burned to death.

It's not a question of expecting to be killed, but accepting that there is a high risk of death.

tartanterra

marklv wrote: »

Yours is a really stupid statement! So what is the army for, then? Playing? No, it's for military action, meaning killing armed enemies of the British state and accepting the risk of being killed by the latter. It's not a sometimes dangerous job, it's an always dangerous job!!

The Army, I assumed, was for national security.

Not for people to "volunteer to die" as you so incorrectly stated earlier on in this thread.

As for your statement about it being "an always dangerous job"; it really depends on what you are doing as your base trade, and where you are serving at the time.
Whilst an infantry soldier working on the ground in Afghanistan would agree that his job is currently extremely dangerous, an Army clerk working in an office at Middle Wallop would probably consider their job as not very dangerous at all. Of course, all of that could change in a short time as the infantry soldier returns from Afganistan to take a posting in the careers office, and the clerk deploys to Afghanistan to join an infantry unit.

In summary, Service Personnel accept that sometimes their job is dangerous, sometimes it is really, really tedious and boring and at other times it can actually be quite a lot of fun.
Try actually speaking to some Service men and women, and you may discover the facts behind some of the generalisations you are spouting.

I'm not really sure what your general problem with Service people is, but as stated before, I find it very sad.

thescouselander

tartanterra wrote: »

The Army, I assumed, was for national security.

And there is your first mistake. The Army is there to allow the government to apply foreign policy. National security is more of a secondary role these days it would seem.

mbga9pgf

thescouselander wrote: »

And there is your first mistake. The Army is there to allow the government to apply foreign policy. National security is more of a secondary role these days it would seem.

Nope. Its still the primary aim. But, whilst we have slack in the system (Germany arent quite invading poland yet), we can engage in "soft" and "hard" defence deplomacy. You cant segregate what is going on in the middle eastern theatre with our national security. Energy stability after all is key to national security is it not? How about having a stable middle east? Surely that is beneficial in the long run to both the occupants of said nations as well as ourselves?

If you all hadnt noticed, we are an island. Most global trade is still transferred by sea. Our energy resources are centralised in dodgy middle eastern countries with no democratic rule and a penchant for pushing up the price.

If all you think we are currently involved in is Afghan you need to think again. We have involvement in subsaharan aftrica, the falklands, gibraltar, the balkans, Afghanistan, military diplomats in Iraq, people in the far east and of course the navy around the globe.We do much much more of course which you will never hear about.

We do more than kill savage, women repressing bomb makers and thugs in middle eastern countries, we build schools, infrastructure (kajaki dam turbines and HV power cables in afghan, assist fledgling governments with governance and constitutional affairs, build schools, bridges, supply clean drinking water), deliver aid at short notice (pakistan earthquake, Tsunami, South american earthquake etc all supplied within 48 hours of the disaster hitting), have a significant impact (for the better) on our local communities, interacting with localscools and events. We provide the private sector,once we retire with highly skilled, highly trained individuals (comms, IT, aviation, naval, management, accountants,engineering, civil construction, nursing, medicine). Of course, we cant do "soft" diplomacy in somewhere like afghanistan without security, which is what we are stuck on in afghanistan.

If you are treated at Birmingham selly oak, papworth and a host of other UK hospitals there is a good chance you are being treated by a military doctor in civilian uniform.

Before people come across with uninformed comment picked up from the daily mail, do yourself a favour and do your research.

The comment above along the lines of 10% fear, 40% boredom, 50% fun cannot be closer to the truth. We are the original work hard play hard organisation and long may it stay that way.

CLAPTON

ILW wrote: »

i seem to remenber that in my day, many of the teachers were ex army types who did tend to command discipline. It was a grammer school though.

it was probably a grammar school

thescouselander

mbga9pgf wrote: »

Nope. Its still the primary aim. But, whilst we have slack in the system (Germany arent quite invading poland yet), we can engage in "soft" and "hard" defence deplomacy. You cant segregate what is going on in the middle eastern theatre with our national security. Energy stability after all is key to national security is it not? How about having a stable middle east? Surely that is beneficial in the long run to both the occupants of said nations as well as ourselves?

If you all hadnt noticed, we are an island. Most global trade is still transferred by sea. Our energy resources are centralised in dodgy middle eastern countries with no democratic rule and a penchant for pushing up the price.

If all you think we are currently involved in is Afghan you need to think again. We have involvement in subsaharan aftrica, the falklands, gibraltar, the balkans, Afghanistan, military diplomats in Iraq, people in the far east and of course the navy around the globe.We do much much more of course which you will never hear about.

We do more than kill savage, women repressing zealots in middle eastern countries, we build schools, infrastructure (kajaki dam turbines and HV power cables in afghan, assist fledgling governments with governance and constitutional affairs, build schools, bridges, supply clean drinking water), deliver aid at short notice (pakistan earthquake, Tsunami, South american earthquake etc all supplied within 48 hours of the disaster hitting), have a significant impact (for the better) on our local communities, interacting with localscools and events. We provide the private sector,once we retire with highly skilled, highly trained individuals (comms, IT, aviation, naval, management, accountants,engineering, civil construction, nursing, medicine). Of course, we cant do "soft" diplomacy in somewhere like afghanistan without security, which is what we are stuck on in afghanistan.

If you are treated at Birmingham selly oak, papworth and a host of other UK hospitals there is a good chance you are being treated by a military doctor in civilian uniform.

Before people come across with uninformed comment picked up from the daily mail, do yourself a favour and do your research.

The comment above along the lines of 10% fear, 40% boredom, 50% fun cannot be closer to the truth. We are the original work hard play hard organisation and long may it stay that way.

Of course the forces are responsible for protecting British assets and interests abroad but quite a lot of what's going on is driven by foreign policy. Just look at Afghanistan. We could play a lesser role in Afghanistan like some of our NATO allies but the previous government has decided to play a fairly big part. Contrast that with the French who aren't in the least bit interested in Afghanistan and it becomes quite clear to me the two approaches are driven by differences in the two nations foreign policy.

I'm not saying either approach is wrong but defence of our interests and foreign policy are inextricably linked.

dori2o

The_White_Horse wrote: »

lemonjelly wrote: »

So, can anyone tell me why there is such a blood lust amongst the private sector workers on here against the public sector?

because the public sector is filled with loads of morons who add NOTHING but cost. If this happens in the private sector (which it does) we can choose not to deal with that company. we cannot avoid it in the public sector.

why should I pay for glossy magazines printed by councils, translators, flexi time, stupid schemes, meeting and hateful public workers who feel they are owed a living and almost look down their noses at private sector wealth generators.

people work in the public sector because (a) they are not good enough to be in the private sector or (b) because the have left wing tendancies.

These council clowns on 250k a year don't know what pressure is. there decisions don't make or break anything. if they lose money they just beg for more or take more.

public sector workers have NO RESPECT for the private sector who generate the money to pay their massively inflated salaries and pensions.

Most are scum.

Pot, Kettle and Black mean anything to you?

dori2o

ILW wrote: »

And who gave Capita the contact?
Some idiot civil servant who will NOT be sacked if it is found that the contract is one sided on the side of the contractor. Much of the waste is due to any lack of true accountability. The poor old taxpayer always picks up the bill.

You do realise that those who work in the public sector are taxpayers too right?

The majority of CS employees are front line and are paid pretty appalling salaries.

The avarage salary in the area I live in is £24000 for a 35hr working week. I get £16875 for working 37 hours, and before White Horse comes on stating I only get that cause I can't work in the private sector, well I did work in the private sector, but my company decided the job I was doing, and being paid in excess of £25000 for, could be done by people living in Romania far cheaper. Therefore the Private Sector job I had in engineering, where I had served my time as an apprentice and worked for nearly 20 years went through no fault of my own.

To call us scum is pathetic and provides a picture of what a rather crass human being you really are.

I go to work, I pay taxes, I do what I am asked to do to the best of my ability.

I agree that those in charge need to be more accountable for their actions, but I am not scum.