No inventory professionaly cleaned

RoyalDad

We moved into our flat 11 months ago. The flat was advertised by Foxtons and we pay our rent to them but its not managed. When we moved in we were not given an inventory and the agent asked if we wanted the place professionaly cleaned - we said no as we did not want to pay to have it professionaly cleaned when we moved out. We have handed in our notice to leave and have just seen the contract says we have to have the place professionaly cleaned after all. We pay £1350 a month rent and have a £2000 deposit. When we moved into the flat we found mouldy laundry in the washing machine and drink in the fridge. The previous tenants did a runner owning £1000s in back rent. It seems the landlord is a millionaire who could not even be bothered to come and check his property after they left. Where do we stand legally as we dont feel its fair we have to pay to have the place cleaned. Many thanks.

sfm82

If it's in your contract then you have to clean it or they will take payments for cleaning the flat from your deposit before they return it to you.

They should have had the flat professionally cleaned for you before you moved in, you shouldn't have had to pay for this.

The best you can do IMHO is talk to the letting agent about it and see whether they will accept the flat being cleaned to a very high standard by yourselves instead of a professional company.

DVardysShadow

Hard one. I think it may be an unfair contract term to have the place professionally cleaned.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/publications/publication-categories/guidance/unfair-terms-consumer/oft356 shows that the OFT considered having windows professionally cleaned and has more to say on the subject of cleaning. Worth a read. Hope it helps a little.

sfm82

Also just to add that it's perfectly normal for a tenant to leave any property they rent out in a rentable condition after they leave and in the view of any letting agent the tenant should pay for the flat to be cleaned to a high standard....but in saying that this is usually because that it how the tenant usually receives the property.

DVardysShadow

sfm82 wrote: »

If it's in your contract then you have to clean it or they will take payments for cleaning the flat from your deposit before they return it to you.

They should have had the flat professionally cleaned for you before you moved in, you shouldn't have had to pay for this.

The best you can do IMHO is talk to the letting agent about it and see whether they will accept the flat being cleaned to a very high standard by yourselves instead of a professional company.

If it is an unfair term, it may not be enforceable. It is probably fair to require a standard of cleaning, but not to specify how - and it is unfair to expect the place back cleaner.

RoyalDad

Like I said we specifically said no when they asked if we wanted the flat professionaly cleaned as she said that would mean that we did not have to pay for it to be cleaned when we moved out. Without and inventory can they still enforce this?

chewmylegoff

kenmlove wrote: »

We moved into our flat 11 months ago. The flat was advertised by Foxtons and we pay our rent to them but its not managed. When we moved in we were not given an inventory and the agent asked if we wanted the place professionaly cleaned - we said no as we did not want to pay to have it professionaly cleaned when we moved out. We have handed in our notice to leave and have just seen the contract says we have to have the place professionaly cleaned after all. We pay £1350 a month rent and have a £2000 deposit. When we moved into the flat we found mouldy laundry in the washing machine and drink in the fridge. The previous tenants did a runner owning £1000s in back rent. It seems the landlord is a millionaire who could not even be bothered to come and check his property after they left. Where do we stand legally as we dont feel its fair we have to pay to have the place cleaned. Many thanks.

every contract that is drawn up by an agency that i have ever seen has the standard clause about having the place professionally cleaned when you move out. however, such a clause is not particularly reasonable in my view if the landlord hasn't had it properly cleaned when you moved in. they can only reasonably ask you to return the flat to the same condition you found it in.

i have had this a couple of times - both times we had check in and check out done by an independent inventory clerk. this was helpful as it documented the fact that the place hadn't been cleaned properly when we moved in, and the fact that it was cleaner when we moved out than it was when we moved in.

given that there is no inventory in place, and i presume no check in report, it will be difficult for you to demonstrate that it wasn't clean when you moved in - that said it will also be difficult for the landlord to prove that it was clean.

you could try getting the agent to put in writing the fact that it was not cleaned when you moved in - good luck getting foxtons to do that though.

if you end up getting into a scrap over deposit deductions, you could always ask the landlord to produce evidence e.g. an invoice, that the flat was cleaned professionally when you moved in - obviously he won't be able to.

chewmylegoff

sfm82 wrote: »

Also just to add that it's perfectly normal for a tenant to leave any property they rent out in a rentable condition after they leave and in the view of any letting agent the tenant should pay for the flat to be cleaned to a high standard....but in saying that this is usually because that it how the tenant usually receives the property.

it's perfectly normal as long as it was in a rentable condition when the tenant received it.

jockosjungle

Seems a pretty vague term to me, professionally cleaned. Why not clean it yourself? There is another thread that is similar around here somewhere, not sure why getting it professionally cleaned is better than leaving it very clean.

What does it say in the contract? Is it specific, technically you could get a cleaner in for a couple of hours and pay them £20, get a receipt and say it has been professionally cleaned.

R

princeofpounds

The clause is very likely to be totally unenforceable. They might try to retain your deposit however, so it will mean a trip to an arbitrator or court.

A quick point though - you don't pay your rent to Foxtons, you pay it to your landlord through Foxtons. Your landlord is the person you have the contract with and who is responsible for (almost) everything. Foxtons is just his agent.

Why is it likely to be unenforceable?

The OFT guidelines are a strong indication. Whilst they cannot replicate the decision of a judge, most of them are based on previous legal judgments (not all precedent-setting mind you).

Your only statutory legal duty is to behave in a tenant-like manner and return the property in the same condition as on entry, excluding fair wear and tear. So any decision against you will depend on contract law.

Thankfully you count as a consumer for the purposes of contract law, and consumers get special protection in contracts from unfair clauses. A clause can be unfair for all sorts of reasons, but I can think of several objecitons to this one off the top of my head

- What is professional? If you pay your mate to clean it, is that professional? If you clean the entire house and pay for a cleaner to come in for 1 hour to do anything you have missed, is that professional?

- Consumer contracts are not allowed to have significant imbalances in power. So demanding something (professional cleaning) without a service or other consideration going in the other direction is likely to be unfair.

- It would *certainly* be unfair for a landlord to dicate the purchase of a service (cleaning) when he, not the tenant, has control over the provision of that service. consumers cannot be asked to sign up for liabilities that they do not know in advance. So they could not dicate who you used as your professional cleaner.

- In order to sue you for breaching the clause, they would need to prove a loss. If the place is clean anyway, there is no loss to sue over and the judge would throw it out.

sfm82

Realistically unless you can get your letting agent to agree to you cleaning it yourselves then they will take money from you.

They will also probably pick at all the small things that needed cleaning after you leave, if you have carpets then forget it! I am just being realistic about this.

I haven't had any dealings with Foxtons but I have rented from other large agencies and it is worth the expense of having the flat professionally cleaned when you leave to get your full deposit back or the letting agent will find all a manner of things to deduct from your deposit and you lose control of your own money.

It's not worth the hassle and faffing with clauses enforceable or unenforceable.