Paypal seller protection?

soolin

MK_Chris wrote: »

Thanks to all for the replies - to me, it's just as unfair as the bank charges thing, even if it is detailed in the terms and conditions, so I will be fighting it, regardless of who writes my chances off.

I'll go to the various consumer organisations that are set up, the ombudsman, the FSA... and if all else fails, small claims or Watchdog, I don't care. I won't just sit back and let £300 go down the swanny.

The problem is here you need to work out what can be achieved by going to those bodies. The old Watchdog with Nicky whatsit about 4 years ago did get a goodwill refund out of paypal for a very similar story, but at the time paypal warned that sellers really must read the warnings placed on the site . Yours will just be another story and since the warning is now on every single payment you receive when you log in to check status I can't see how you can say you didn't know about it:

This is what it says on each and every payment notification;

We recommend that you:

• Post to the buyer's address on this page
• Use a postal service with signature confirmation
• Save all tracking information or other proof of postage

Tips to sell securely

You might try for a goodwill gesture, but the scam is so well known though it is not even clever and I worry that you won't get anyone remotely interested. Also if you think about it only paypal can give you a refund, so wherever you go and whoever you complain to it will ultimately be paypal making a goodwill gesture.

cyberbob

MK_Chris wrote: »

I'll go to the various consumer organisations that are set up, the ombudsman, the FSA... and if all else fails, small claims or Watchdog, I don't care. I won't just sit back and let £300 go down the swanny.

I'm afraid that really wont do much. As Soolin says this scam is well known. Paypal list the best ways to protect yourself.

Ultimately however harsh it sounds it was your responsibility to check you were covered and you didn't do that. I think your better off attempting to pursue the individual rather than trying paypal as paypal have not done anything wrong and it was you not checking the Terms and conditions or following paypal recommendations to protect yourself that has caused rhe problem. No matter how you try and put it the weak link was yourself

Nicki24

This is completely wrong....if paypal is so easily abused then I think we should all opt out of using it. There are some items that just cannot be posted and have to be sold on a "to be picked up/collected" basis.

I definately think moving forward I will stick to waiting for cheques to be cashed before I send out any items I wish to sell via ebay.

£300 is a lot to lose, and I agree that you should fight it......even if it takes months and even if you only end up with a so called 'goodwill' gesture atleast it will be better than nothing.

soolin

Nicki24 wrote: »

This is completely wrong....if paypal is so easily abused then I think we should all opt out of using it. There are some items that just cannot be posted and have to be sold on a "to be picked up/collected" basis.

I definately think moving forward I will stick to waiting for cheques to be cashed before I send out any items I wish to sell via ebay.

£300 is a lot to lose, and I agree that you should fight it......even if it takes months and even if you only end up with a so called 'goodwill' gesture atleast it will be better than nothing.

You may wish to refresh your understanding of the ebay rules. Sellers can't refuse paypal, you can't even list without it (unless you are selling in the car and motor vehicle categorise). The only way to stop the paypal on collection scam is to not sell items that cannot be posted safely.

The fact that people continue not to understand the rules and procedures is why these scummers get away with it. It doe snot help for people to blindly use services without having the most basic of understanding.

I hate scammers with a vengeance but we must stop making it so easy for them to scam us, that is the only way we will stop them.

cyberbob

Nicki24 wrote: »

This is completely wrong....if paypal is so easily abused then I think we should all opt out of using it.

Its not easily abused if you understand the Terms and Conditions and how it works

Nicki24 wrote: »

There are some items that just cannot be posted and have to be sold on a "to be picked up/collected" basis.

Ebay is not the best place to sell these items you better off lookng at your local paper

Nicki24 wrote: »

I definately think moving forward I will stick to waiting for cheques to be cashed before I send out any items I wish to sell via ebay.

You have to accept paypal to list on ebay. You have no choice

Nicki24 wrote: »

£300 is a lot to lose, and I agree that you should fight it......even if it takes months and even if you only end up with a so called 'goodwill' gesture atleast it will be better than nothing.

Yes £300 is a lot to lose and a harsh lesson, but it all comes down to understanding what you are doing and not accepting things blindly. It could take months even years of fighting but the OP will end up with the same result nothing as it was his responsibility no one elses. He would be better off using his energies to pursue the scammer as at least there may be a slim chance of something

jant_2

I have the same situation with Paypal as MK Chris
Money paid into Paypal, TV collected, we transferred the money into our own bank account received 100% feedback from buyer.
Thought this was a satisfactory transaction then 2wks later advised of an unauthorised transaction by Paypal who have put our account into a negative balance.
As did MK Chris we thought we were dealing with a secure site in Paypal.
We found it very poor that Paypal advise you of case closed without any further explanation we have written to Paypal Appeals in
Nebraska asking for everything in writing - doubt we will receive
much but like MK Chris I will not take this without a fight
MK Chris let me know how you progress ...

theonlywayisup

jant wrote: »

I have the same situation with Paypal as MK Chris
Money paid into Paypal, TV collected, we transferred the money into our own bank account received 100% feedback from buyer.
Thought this was a satisfactory transaction then 2wks later advised of an unauthorised transaction by Paypal who have put our account into a negative balance.

Whilst it may not suit you to hear it, Paypal only need a Certificate of Posting for you to defend a chargeback for fraudulent or non authorised transaction. Your buyer may be a scammer, but a scammer can only work if the seller allows himself to be scammed. If you use a service (Paypal) you must know the rules. They are simple and straightforward but many many don't bother to find out what they are.

jant wrote: »

As did MK Chris we thought we were dealing with a secure site in Paypal.

It is secure. You did not abide by the simple rules.

jant wrote: »

We found it very poor that Paypal advise you of case closed without any further explanation we have written to Paypal Appeals in
Nebraska asking for everything in writing - doubt we will receive
much but like MK Chris I will not take this without a fight
MK Chris let me know how you progress ...

Unless you can supply a CoP, Paypal will close the case. You couldn't supply it so the case is closed.

I'm sorry if this is harsh. But these are the published rules.

pinkshoes

I know hindsight is a marvellous thing, but what you SHOULD have done was insisted on using a courier when they insisted on using Paypal - this would have given you a tracking number and prevented you from falling for this scam.

Going to various consumer organisations won't help, as you didn't follow the paypal requirements.

If I were you, I'd request the name and address of the account holder that bought the TV, and send them a recorded delivery letter stating that they purchased your TV on ebay, which they collected on <date, time>, and they now owe you the sum of £300, and have 14 days to pay the money owed. Let them know that failure to pay this money will result in court action.

You say that a dispute was opened really quickly, and when you phoned them, they said they'd "sort it out". Who did you phone? Was it the number on the ebay account, or a phone number given to you by the scammer? If the latter, perhaps this number is traceable and has been used since. If it was the account holder's phone number, then this sounds odd, as surely they should have sounded more surprised?

Just_Plain_Jane

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Unless you can supply a CoP, Paypal will close the case. You couldn't supply it so the case is closed.

The OP would need to prove that the item was delivered, so a certificate of posting is no good. The package needs to have a tracking number which is trackable online, or PayPal will refund.

cyberbob

Just_Plain_Jane wrote: »

The OP would need to prove that the item was delivered, so a certificate of posting is no good. The package needs to have a tracking number which is trackable online, or PayPal will refund.

That is incorrect to defend fraudulent use of a credit card you only need a certificate of posting. its the only case in paypal you don't need to prove delivery