Punctuation

DVardysShadow

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Why should this matter? Correct grammar and spelling aren't some kind of veneer that's added in certain situations, they should be automatic for anyone who is reasonably well educated.

I would like to think that is true. But some of the education is plainly false - a veneer.

For example, not 'splitting' infinitives [in itself, a misapprehension of the scope of an infinitive] is an artificial rule, over which I have had arguments in the first 10 years of my working life. Now, thankfully, it seems to be dying a death as a rule.

And, of course, in early years at school:
"Teacher, Me and my sister went to ..."
"Katy, you mustn't say 'me and my sister', you must always say 'my sister and I' "

Later in life, this little piece of veneer from the education system comes back as:
"They took my Husband and I for a meal"
"Don't you mean 'they took my husband and me for a meal' ?"
"Oh no, dear, it is [always?] proper grammar [always?] to [STRIKE][always?][/STRIKE] say 'my husband and I', never 'my husband and me' !"
"So if your husband had not gone, would you have said 'they took I for a meal' ?"

spaghetti_monster

I guess it's true that language is a living and changing thing. I occasionally do translations into English, often for websites and sometimes the language is different. It seems more appropriate to use what seems to me to be spoken rather than written English.
Most of the posts on this thread have mistakes (including this one I expect!), one of the reasons being that we're mostly typing as we would speak.
So nowadays we don't just have the carefully written word but many other mediums such as forums, texting, facebook, twitter, etc. As other posters have said, this must also have its effect on children's language.

I'm afraid I also can't help noticing some of the posts that are absolutely full of very basic errors. I find that I really don't mind this in the context of a forum (we're all typing fast), but I think it's strange that a poster would comment on a child's punctuation/teachers marking and not use any capital letters/full stops/apostrophes.

Sorry for any of my own mistakes!:o

fernliebee

Whilst I don't enjoy reading posts that are near illegible, I can't help but feel people who get genuinely upset or angry by others spelling or grammar on an internet forum need a bit more going on in their lives.

If I see spelling or grammatical errors in books, official letters, public signage etc, it does make me wonder why people don't think to get someone to proof read for them if they are incapable of doing the job themselves. But internet forum, text message or MSN mistakes just don't seem important as long as you get the gist of what is meant.

Oh and I read constantly, could read from the age of 3 and I am the sort who will read any cereal packet or leaflet in the absence of any reading material, however my grammar and punctuation are not very good and seem to get worse as I get older- am I keeping myself awake at night worrying about it? Strangely, No, I am not!

For those of you who really do care, make use of your knowledge:

http://www.freerice.com/index.php?&s=English%20Grammar

margaretclare

And, of course, in early years at school:
"Teacher, Me and my sister went to ..."
"Katy, you mustn't say 'me and my sister', you must always say 'my sister and I' "

Later in life, this little piece of veneer from the education system comes back as:
"They took my Husband and I for a meal"
"Don't you mean 'they took my husband and me for a meal' ?"
"Oh no, dear, it is [always?] proper grammar [always?] to [always?] say 'my husband and I', never 'my husband and me' !"
"So if your husband had not gone, would you have said 'they took I for a meal'?"

'My sister and me went to...' as opposed to 'My sister and I went to...'

I tend to bear in mind the possibility that only one person had gone therefore: 'I went to...' It would be more correct to say 'My sister and I'.

It follows that in the second example, it wouldn't be correct to say 'They took I for a meal', it would be 'They took me for a meal'. Therefore 'my husband and me' is correct and makes sense.

DVardysShadow

margaretclare wrote: »

'My sister and me went to...' as opposed to 'My sister and I went to...'

I tend to bear in mind the possibility that only one person had gone therefore: 'I went to...' It would be more correct to say 'My sister and I'.

It follows that in the second example, it wouldn't be correct to say 'They took I for a meal', it would be 'They took me for a meal'. Therefore 'my husband and me' is correct and makes sense.

Agree with your approach. It yields the correct answer.

But it is surprising where this error comes up - eg BBC newsreader "Goodnight from XXX and I"

DVardysShadow

fernliebee wrote: »

For those of you who really do care, make use of your knowledge:

http://www.freerice.com/index.php?&s=English%20Grammar

Didn't take long to break it!

Q. Which is correct?

• Jane or I are going to do that.
• Jane or I am going to do that.

A. Jane or I am going to do that.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: That is so unnatural. The answer has to be:

"Either Jane is or I am going to do that."

.

Even that is forced and surely it should be recast as:

"Either Jane or I will do that."

.

notisis

I reached the end of page 1 and simply could not read any more! The complaints about grammar, punctuation and use of English started to annoy me terribly when I saw everyone's typed answers contained so many of the mistakes complained about! I know people make mistakes when typing quickly but in a thread about precisely this it made me laugh but also slightly irritated.

As an aside I do know an English teacher (primary school) who cannot spell and is hopeless with grammar - I'm still wondering how she qualified.

(Feel free to mark errors in red and write "could do better".):rotfl:

The_Poet

Notisis, congratulations on being perfect!

There is a word that has always flummoxed me and that is "sanctimonious", can you please confirm that I have spelt it correctly?

Alcmene

The_Poet wrote: »

Notisis, congratulations on being perfect!

There is a word that has always flummoxed me and that is "sanctimonious", can you please confirm that I have spelt it correctly?

I think that Notisis has a point! They certainly did not come across as being sanctimonious. I think that often it is difficult to express a difficult point when online, as the lack of expressive intonations in speech and the lack of body language can completely change the intention of the words.

DVardysShadow

notisis wrote: »

I reached the end of page [STRIKE]1[/STRIKE] [one - numbers less than 10 should be written as words] and simply could not read any more! The complaints about grammar, punctuation and use of English started to annoy me terribly when I saw [STRIKE]everyone's typed answers[/STRIKE] [tautology - you are still referring to the 'complaints' - use 'they'] contained so many of the mistakes complained about! [<< poor sentence construction - ending with a preposition] I know people make mistakes when typing quickly [!! Punctuation] but [!! Punctuation] in a thread about precisely this [!! Punctuation] it made me laugh [!! Punctuation] but also slightly irritated.

As an aside [!! Punctuation] I do know an English teacher (primary school) [!! Punctuation] who cannot spell and is hopeless with grammar - I'm still wondering how she qualified.

(Feel free to mark [Do you mean mock?] errors in red and write "could do better".):rotfl:

I think your post illustrates the big difficulty with this. It is easy to pick holes but hard to be perfect. Although I try to maintain a fair standard here, I do knowingly let things go. And I would only have a problem with this thread, if I felt that people were posting to complain, believing that they themselves were perfect. I think a lot of the angst is people who know full well that their own written English is not perfect seeing the new generation being held to much poorer standards, when they would hope to find them better taught.