Punctuation

MichelleM

Im a secondary English teacher and often find that when students make the transition from primary to secondary levels tend to be a bit different. This is simply due to the way the national curriculum is written and the fact that English marking/grading is very subjective and open. We are not able to do 'proper' written/reading tests like maths or science as there are no right or wrong answers.

You also have to remember that English is marked in 3 areas: reading, writing and speaking and listening. We then have to base a level that covers all 3 areas- which is daft as I often get boys in years 7-9 who are brilliant at reading but a little lazy at writing, meaning an average grade doesnt reflect this issue.

Another issue that secondary teachers have is the fact that we do not have NCTs anymore- or SATS. The government are trying to introduce a new way of assessment called APP (Assessing Pupil Progress). We are given large grids for the 3 areas of learning (read, write, talk) and then you mark on the sheets where that student falls. At the moment, the government hasnt really given any direct guidelines about the best way to complete these assessments and are relying on us to tell them after we go through trial and error.

Here is a direct link to the APP grids:

WRITING
READING
SPEAKING AND LISTENING

Finally, with regards to teaching Year 7. Personally, I know this may sound bad, they are not a priority when it comes to marking. It is my year 10/11 groups that tend to have detailed comments, etc. in their books. For KS3, I do general targets in their books, for example, if I notice a pattern or issue with certain punctuation, spellings or even general presentation. I do not use book work for assessing students though. Our faculty asks that we complete once piece of extended writing/reading task and speaking and listening assessment every half term. Then we can use the APP grids to pick out any weaknesses/issues and create targets. As a teacher who loves her role and is very enthusiastic, I just physically do not have the time to circle every mistake my students make. I do ensure that they know their targets in a particular area and then I might base part of my teaching in class on this, to remind them and show them what they should be doing in order to achieve the next level.

And just to clarify- based on the 'National Average' (whatever that is), when students arrive at secondary, level 4/5 is about right although possibly more level 4s in inner city schools. Year 8- solid level 5 or aiming towards 6 (even though a lot of students will never achieve a level 6 due to factors such as language, ability, weakness in one of the areas) and year 9 they should be consistent in all 3 areas.

I hope this helps, I have tried to be very honest!

(And dont pick up on grammar/spelling, Im not at work!)

MichelleM

And with regards to text speak. Working in an inner city huge comp school, I havent actually really seen it as a problem. If one of my students even dared to hand in a piece of work written in text speak I would expect them to do it again- not allow them to get away with it. I think one of the main issues with students struggling in English is that there is so much to teach/get through and teachers are under a lot of pressure to ensure that all areas are covered, that the small things cannot be targeted. It doesnt help when you have one adult and 34 children in just one of the 7 classes you teach too. Smaller classes mean that you can personalise learning more, at the moment, it is completely unrealistic to pick up all issues for all students in all classes you teach.

peachyprice

My DD is in year 4, she's expected to correctly use capital letters, full stops, quotation marks, apostrophes, commas, exclamation marks and question marks.

HTH

Almo

gonzo127 wrote: »

something that has stuck with me and something i have used with my step children to show them the importance of grammer and punctuation (although i have difficulty with it all) is the following

A teacher asks his students to punctuate this sentence: "Woman without her man is nothing."

The men all write, "Woman, without her man, is nothing."

The women all write, "Woman. Without her, man is nothing!"

I like that one. The one I know is:

Let's eat, Grandma!

vs

Let's eat Grandma!

emsywoo123

peachyprice wrote: »

My DD is in year 4, she's expected to correctly use capital letters, full stops, quotation marks, apostrophes, commas, exclamation marks and question marks.

HTH

My DD is year 2, and is expected to use these as well, and errors are pointed out to them, but there is not a cascade of doom if they forget

Hermia

Kaleidoscope27 wrote: »

I was in a club a few weeks ago and overheard a conversation in the toilets. One girl who by the sounds of it was a teacher was telling her friend about an essay one of her pupils had handed in. It was written in text speak, with little punctuation.

We take on a lot of school leavers where I work and I have seen application letters written in text speak or with no capital letters, punctuations or paragraphs! They all go straight in the bin as we can't employ someone who can't even be trusted to write a letter to a customer. I really worry about how any of these poor kids will ever get a decent job as most good jobs require a reasonable standard of written English. People have always used slang and informal styles of writing, but I think the in ye olde days people also knew how to write properly when needed.

peachyprice

emsywoo123 wrote: »

My DD is year 2, and is expected to use these as well, and errors are pointed out to them, but there is not a cascade of doom if they forget

Hopefully our girlies will maintain this when they get to secondary school and not slip into the dreaded 'text speak'

Have you noticed, the teachers use green pen to correct now instead of red, maybe they feel it makes their corrections appear more constructive than critical.

DVardysShadow

MichelleM wrote: »

Im a secondary English teacher and ....
You also have to remember that English is marked in 3 areas: reading, writing and speaking and listening.

??? The mathematically inclined splutter to a halt at this point, before thinking that there is possibly an Irish joke lurking in there somewhere.

Courgette

DVardysShadow wrote: »

??? The mathematically inclined splutter to a halt at this point, before thinking that there is possibly an Irish joke lurking in there somewhere.

Speaking and Listening is counted as one skill (but yes, I agree they're pretty different - I'm a Secondary English teacher too)

Courgette

peachyprice wrote: »

Hopefully our girlies will maintain this when they get to secondary school and not slip into the dreaded 'text speak'

Have you noticed, the teachers use green pen to correct now instead of red, maybe they feel it makes their corrections appear more constructive than critical.

Not us, it's what management say we have to do. I actually got told off once for marking in red but that's another thread