Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) Article Discussion

bestpud

danielle0817 wrote: »

Where im from everyone gets a bus pass so therefore ema has nothing to do with travel in my county, i dont no if this applies else where but everyone here gets their £115 per term paid for so i would enquire if i were you as this is a huge financial help AND IT DOESNT DEPEND ON INCOME WOOOOO at least one thing is FAIR. I still think EMA is a really unfair system, i have spent approx £200 since starting college and ive only been there 5 month nearly and thats excluding lunch money (£15-20 per week), clothes etc and my mam and dad have had to fund that...the whole things a joke.

Sandwiches??

bestpud

hudson2249 wrote: »

inaddition to my comments above - remember that both of my children have struggled with their education and have to work extremely hard to obtain the required results at college - They passed last years exams and have just signed up for another 2 year course. They i have no doubt would not have passed if they were working. This year however, they have decided that they need to work as they need money. They tutors have advised that this is not a good idea and that they need the extra time to study. How can we afford to pay each twin £30 a week each??? Child benefit isnt even that much!

Don't give them £30 a week then!

Also, may I suggest you reduce your outgoings? Why should the government fund your lifestyle choices? You have a high income - reduce your outgoings and help your children out.

EMA is for those who DO NOT have large incomes and equally large outgoings they could reduce - you know, people who actually have a LOW INCOME and CANNOT afford to support their children through college.

Or the other option you have is to reduce you income and your children will get the EMA. Not sure how you'd fund that large house though...

Pont

Whoa - lets all calm down a little. One thing is clear and that is there are a lot of complaints about how the EMA is run. Bestpud is quite right to state that many children wouldn't be able to go on to college without the financial help of the EMA. Some families receiving minimum wage work very hard and would find it impossible to support their children through 2 years of further education. Equally so veggie4life says that the EMA is based on the previous year's parental income so many students will fall through the loophole in the case of redundancies, long term illness etc. Also as danielle0817 suggests, college expenses are never ending and a drain on everybody regardless of EMA.

At present the system throws up a lot of problems and resentments as illustrated on this site. Some students get the full whack but don't do any work (TES website is a real eye-opener!), some students don't get a penny because their parents earn a pound over the threshold (totally disregarding that their travel to work expenses may put their income under the minimum wage bracket), and some students who have parents who are clearly loaded get the full £30 per week (but these parents can afford to employ accountants to juggle their income). Perhaps if the EMA was awarded on the same grounds as child benefit, ie. everybody receives the same amount, this would be the fairest system.

Savvy_Sue, thanks for your comments. The college that my DD wishes to attend is not the closest to our home but it has a much better modern foreign language department than her school's 6th form. The school want her to attend their 6th form as she's an 'A' grade student (looks good on their results) but still she won't be treated the same as the student sat next to her in class regarding the EMA. For example the EMA could be used for foreign language trips, required both in college and the school's 6th form, but my daughter will miss out. As for compulsion to attend school factor, we're on ambiguous grounds there. The LEA has the responsibility to ensure all students receive a 'suitable' education up to the age of 16. My argument is that the education they can offer isn't suitable as she has/will already have top grades, and they can't compel my DD to undertake 'A' levels as this is not compulsory. I have looked into this thoroughly as believe it or not I work for the LEA! All I'm saying is that fast-tracked kids need to be accommodated when looking at further education just as those who are at the other end of the spectrum, both academically and financially. Afterall, your annual income is your annual income regardless if your child is an able student, an 'average' student or a less able student.

Danielle0817 thank you for your comments regarding the bus passes. We have a particular problem in my area because of where we are situated geographically. Not only are we out of county but we are now out of country (what happened to the United Kingdom?). Since devolution the education departments are now run seperately which causes all sorts of problems especially when it comes to finance.

Anyway, sorry to be long-winded. Let's keep the debate going, but let's be nice!

bestpud

Pont

Thanks for your very dimplomatic post.

I agree, it is a very emotive debate, not least because it is open to abuse.

danielle0817

bestpud wrote: »

I find your post offensive! :mad:

Firstly, you are lucky you can find the money for your materials - lots couldn't, hence EMA.

There are a lot of people out there who have worked hard all their lives, are still working hard to support their families and will still be working hard well into their sixties, if not seventies. BUT they are not necessarily on an income high enough to prevent their children getting EMA. People CAN AND DO work damned hard for the minimum wage!!!

And, get this, not everyone who WORKS VERY HARD and gets a LOW INCOME is in that position through choice or because they have sat on their backsides all their life!!

Do you know what I like about EMA?

It turns the tables slightly! It makes 'children' like you sit up and realise you can't have everything your own way. The worse off children will have learnt that a long time before you did!

Life is not fair, you will always get people who abuse the system. However, EMA softens the blow a bit for those (the majority of claimaints irregardless of what the moaners in here would have us believe) who haven't been as fortunate as you have. And 'fortunate' encompasses more that the amount of pocket money you do or don't get - it's about your whole lifestyle.

Excuse me but do you know anything about my background or my families finacial standing...no...so hold on a minute before your making me out to be a spoilt brat which i am most certainly not!! and i find that very very offensive!

The point i was trying to make is my dad is only person in my house bringing in a wage, he has worked since he was 15 by himself and built a life for us, now we were just over the cut off so therefore pulling out for everything that we have to just to get through college is a pull on the income and do you think im so stupid that i think people that get ema have parents that dont work hard, god im not an idiot!

Also people who are recieving ema buy their 'children' brand new £8k cars for their 17th which i would like to add i didnt before you continue to think im a money grabbing spoilt little girl, but are still get £30 ema a week because they cant manage the expenses of college, now it might be a stupid thought to you but to me something isnt right and why should these people that are able to fiddle it get everything and people that have done everything properly be deprived of extras like this!

And I KNOW you cant have everything your own way in life i cant believe how niave you are making me out to be, trust me you have the completley wrong judgement!
And you should think more before you say these things!
Maybe other people should think about people that are just normal working class people but arnt getting any support and are just over the band, sit up and think maybe the system isnt fair, to me theres no encouragement to people that want to do well or try hard and their families are over the threshold and other people are walking round saying yeah look at my new clothes i bought with me bonus, yeah must be nice to afford it and if i was so rich i would be like yeah look at my new prada handbag i got coz its a saturday erm not i think not more like look at this new set of pencils that ive had to pull out £30 for.
So yeah think what you like, ive got my opinions which is that i still think EMA is a joke, but i best not say anything or make my opinions clear because im just a money grabbing spoilt little girl living in the land where everything is her way and money falls from trees and we all go for tea and crumpets at the local cafe!
You have actually really offended me!:mad:

Sorry about the lenght of this post but the bus passes, i just remembered there was a boy who goes to the same sixth form as me and lives literally 5 mins down the road and at first they refused him a pass as he was didnt have the county in his postcode he eventually got one so keep trying!

cinderelly

I think the EMA is a huge advantage to children of the lower income families. My husband works, I work and have done all our lives and yet we still have a very basic income coming in. It has been a godsend to both of my daughters.

But like everything, it can be abused like most systems. Makes me cross too, but Im sure the majority that get it are the ones that really need it.

The_One_Who

Whoa take a step back and a big breath!

The EMA is open to abuse, like any type of benefit. I don't think anyone disputes that. But much like other types of government handouts the abuse is difficult to stop. They can either give everyone the same amount of money which they can't afford or would be said to be bribing students. Or, they can stop it all together which could prevent some teenagers from deprived areas from attending further education.

No, it's not fair. But life isn't fair. Not every variable is taken in to consideration, but I think every possible criteria has its flaws and no matter what there will always be someone just over the threshold or missing the cut off by a day.

danielle0817

without a doubt some people really do need it and deserve it i just think its unfair the way the system is ran (e.g. the people who fiddle it) im not saying people who get it shouldnt have it and struggle because that would put many people in very very akward situations i completly understand that, but i dont like being out to be a spoilt little mare when im most certainly not

katy-lou

danielle0817 wrote: »

but i dont like being out to be a spoilt little mare when im most certainly not

So you keep saying :rolleyes:

I find the whole debate of EMA to be generally bitter, jelous people whinging that they (or their parents) make too much money.

EMA isnt just to encourage course progress its about giving 'children' the oppertunity to learn and not forcing them into employment because their family desperatly needs an extra bit of money. Hence why £30 is the top amount.

bestpud

danielle0817 wrote: »

Excuse me but do you know anything about my background or my families finacial standing...no...so hold on a minute before your making me out to be a spoilt brat which i am most certainly not!! and i find that very very offensive!

I don't think I did.

The point i was trying to make is my dad is only person in my house bringing in a wage, he has worked since he was 15 by himself and built a life for us, now we were just over the cut off so therefore pulling out for everything that we have to just to get through college is a pull on the income and do you think im so stupid that i think people that get ema have parents that dont work hard, god im not an idiot!

In your own words: "DISCRIMINATION AND UNFAIRNESS OR WHAT???????????? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: ..... its like all them people who try hard yeah we want your grades but your family have worked hard all their lives so were not giving you nothing ahhhhhhh how annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!! something should be done about it!!"

I read that as saying you were refused because your family have worked hard all their lives.

Also people who are recieving ema buy their 'children' brand new £8k cars for their 17th which i would like to add

Clearly you know people who have done this but that doesn't make it the norm. Perhaps they used credit?

i didnt before you continue to think im a money grabbing spoilt little girl, but are still get £30 ema a week because they cant manage the expenses of college, now it might be a stupid thought to you but to me something isnt right and why should these people that are able to fiddle it get everything and people that have done everything properly be deprived of extras like this!

Every benefit is open to abuse. If we worked on your suggestion, we'd give everyone in the country income support to prevent some people claiming it fraudulently. :rolleyes:

I imagine the MAJORITY of EMA claimants have done it 'properly'.

And I KNOW you cant have everything your own way in life i cant believe how niave you are making me out to be, trust me you have the completley wrong judgement!
And you should think more before you say these things!
Maybe other people should think about people that are just normal working class people but arnt getting any support and are just over the band, sit up and think maybe the system isnt fair, to me theres no encouragement to people that want to do well or try hard and their families are over the threshold and other people are walking round saying yeah look at my new clothes i bought with me bonus, yeah must be nice to afford it and if i was so rich i would be like yeah look at my new prada handbag i got coz its a saturday erm not i think not more like look at this new set of pencils that ive had to pull out £30 for.

Social and financial advantage is about much more than designer handbags! You're just making yourself look silly with comments like that. I doubt you do know much about the effects of real hardship and disadvantage on educational outcome and ability to participate fully.

So yeah think what you like, ive got my opinions which is that i still think EMA is a joke, but i best not say anything or make my opinions clear because im just a money grabbing spoilt little girl living in the land where everything is her way and money falls from trees and we all go for tea and crumpets at the local cafe!

I don't think I said that. But you are at college and you are getting the things you need and you are spending £15-20 a week on lunches. So your family can afford to send you to college and you are not exactly scraping by, are you? I guess if every EMA claimant spends that much on lunch then they are actually only getting half the amount to spend on new clothes aren't they? And that's only the ones who get the full £30 - it is on a sliding scale so not everyone gets that much remember.

By the way, that last paragraph (highlighted bit) does come across a bit bratish.
You have actually really offended me!:mad:

Feelings mutual!

I can see you are deeply resentful about EMA. Most teens who don't get it are.

True unfairness and discrimination is about being denied the chance of post-compulsory education because of your background. Believe me, there are many students in this country who struggle with their life chances, not just with their college work - you aren't one of them.