35MPH in a 30MPH zone

alastairq

Its not hard for a small lapse in concentration to let that needle go a few miles over.

A perfectly reasonable statement, for perfectly reasonable people to offer.

Sadly,IMHO, most people treat there driving licences...and the responsibilities that go with them, much like folk treat a bus pass.......as a ticket to travel, and we don't want to be bothered by all that trivia and regulation.....after all, we've got better things to do, and we want to do as we please....


But, referring to the above quote...in real terms, said 'small lapse of concentration' is in fact a loss of control.

Nobody who drives cares to admit they 'lose control' of their vehicle.......even if such loss is brief or momentary.

[But..imagine the outcry if the pilot of your holiday flight admitted as such?]

A 'loss of control' occurs, quite simply, when one's vehicle does something one did not actually intend.


Sadly,most drivers actually have such faith in their competence, that they don't see the need to apply effective concentration to the job in hand, and are happy to allow themselves to be distracted.

Usually, nothing untoward occurs......which leads a driver to believe they are acting with safety. [tailgating, and its proliferation, is an example of this..nothing happens, therefore it must be ok]

I can safely say I have never speeded in my life, but thats only because I dont drive!

But..how many times have people been travelling in a vehicle where the driver has ignored the speed limit?

And if the speed limit is being ignored, what else is being ignored too?

KillerWatt

DrScotsman wrote: »

What a joke! This isn't like a deer crossing sign, it's your own fault if you think it's a good idea to be looking out for speed cameras or police vans instead of glancing at your speedo. You say "Obeying the rules does not necessarilly make a good or safe driver," well I can tell you that deliberately creating a hazard for yourself definitely makes you a worse one! Don't now tell me looking at your speedo is a hazard, it really isn't.

I'm not saying I never speed, and I doubt I'm the model driver, but I've certainly never been on the look out for speed cameras, whether there's a camera sign or otherwise.

If Roddy's statement about his friend is true (and I have no reason to doubt the veracity of it), then that means people are even more likely to have their eyes glued to the speedo instead of the constantly changing scenario in front of them.

Like most here I don't intentionally flout the law, but it is also a fact that every day of the week I exceed a posted speed limit by a few mph.
Also like most drivers out there, the minute I see a scamera/talivan my first reaction is to look at the speedo. The very act of taking your eyes away from the road, refocusing on the dash, then looking back up and refocusing again takes almost 1 second if the boffins are to be believed (again, that sounds quite reasonable).

In a 60mph zone (the A31 seems to be a fave place for the scammers to hang out) that means I have just travelled a distance of 88 feet while my attention was diverted elsewhere.

If the cameras really were about road safety, they would have them in towns, outside schools, etc, but that will never happen because there is no money to be made that way.
However park a van behind a bush on a blind bend, artificially lower the limit to 60, and watch the cash roll in.


PS
I have never been caught by a scamera, and my license is as clean today as it was the first day I applied for it - I just don't believe that cameras have any impact on road safety (the M11 camera is proof of that, people have been dying since that went up - yet there wasn't a single incident before it was erected).

alastairq

Speeding, don't agree with the 70 limit, or the 60 and the 50's that are springing up like dandylions are just a cop out. But I respect that they are there and accept the consequences if I ignore them. After all they are clearly signposted.

The 30 limit I totally agree with, and think 40 in a 30 is a much more serious issue than 100 in a 70

which begs the question of how we perceive speed limits?

Do we perceive them as being personal to us?

[for example, why do I need to travel so slowly, when I can cope with a far higher speed]

Or, are they really about allowing other road users, to cope comfortably with us?

Sadly, I think the driving population has adopted lemming-like tendencies....... all rushing along, ever faster......and thus, unable to cope with anything slower...so therefore, anything moving slower , shouldn't be allowed?

High vehicle speeds require controlled conditions to allow the driver to create a safe environment.


The public highway is a very uncontrolled environment.....and so it should be...it is there for all to use, not just a selected few individuals.

Speed limits are in place to allow the rest of us to cope with the individual.

alastairq

The idea that speed detection devices have anything to do with this mystical 'safety' is again, IMHO, a fatuous argument.

It is largely promoted by those who don't agree with their use.

Speed cameras are in place, for one reason only..... enforcement of the law.

They are very effective at doing so...and can free up Police to deal with other, less enforceable law-breaking.

The idea of some motorists that the Police should focus more on other law-breaking, is also unreasonable... the motorist would not be receiving the attentions of the Constabulary if they themselves weren't breaking the law in the first place....


Or...is it really more true to say, most motorists would prefer to drive in an environment of anarchy?

Mad Max, anyone?


Safety is the responsibility of each individual road user....it is not a team effort, or a collective responsibility.....but an individual one.

[Which is why, in order to use a motorised vehicle on the public highway, a licence is required.]

Safety is a misused word.

A speed camera is most likely to be placed where an Authority has discovered that road users exceeding the speed limit has created an increase in risk.

The response drivers give to a camera has nothing to do with the camera itself...but with the driver.

The presence of a marked police car on the roadside has the same effect.

So why do people continue to blame technology, the Authorities, anybody...except themselves?

stephief

Loss of control implies something entirely different imho. Loss of control suggests wayward behaviour likely to have serious repercussions. Not 36 in a 30 on a deserted road! But I guess we all see things our own way.

But it is his fault, and he will pay the price and he has learned his lesson. Its hardly a hanging offence is it And as for travelling as a passenger in a car where the driver is speeding, what has that got to do with anything? I cant be responsible for the behaviour of a taxi driver, or any other driver for that matter, I dont really see your point there! Are you suggesting pasengers should also be fined for a speeding driver? As a passenger its not my job to read the speedo (though my partner is the exception now, serves him right!)

I absoloutely agree it is the drivers fault if they are caught speeding, my partner has never tried to blame it on anyone or anything else. But I dont think that someone getting one minor offence which wont even earn him a point on his license, in 22 years is the end of the world either. Nor does it make them a particularly bad driver. Never getting a ticket does not mean you have never been guilty of speeding, it just means you have never been caught. Not really the same thing. This one minor issue can only serve to make him a better driver, as it has made him realise how easy it is to let that needle slip too far. A good reminder to have if you ask me!

davetrousers

Hintza wrote: »

Sat Nav will give you a more accurate reading. On my car 76mph = 70mph real speed. I'm not sure but at 30mph I will be reading +/- 34mph.

The Van at work once did 270mph according the Sat Nav!

cyclonebri1

alastairq wrote: »

which begs the question of how we perceive speed limits?

Do we perceive them as being personal to us?

[for example, why do I need to travel so slowly, when I can cope with a far higher speed]

Or, are they really about allowingother road users, to cope comfortably with us?

Sadly, I think the driving population has adopted lemming-like tendencies....... all rushing along, ever faster......and thus, unable to cope with anything slower...so therefore, anything moving slower , shouldn't be allowed?

High vehicle speeds require controlled conditions to allow the driver to create a safe environment.


The public highway is a very uncontrolled environment.....and so it should be...it is there for all to use, not just a selected few individuals.

Speed limits are in place to allow the rest of us to cope with the individual.

Speed limits are in place for one reason only in my view.

It is because if we were left to our collective selves to decide what speed is safe under varied conditions on all types of roads, we, as a group could not do it. Whether out of an inability to judge safe limits or unsuitable conditions such as traffic density, weather etc, I'm not sure but it can't work.

What I disagree with is the imposition of blanket speed limits on roads that can safely traversed at 50% above that limit by any adequate motorist. And the 20 miles of main A road that is subject to a 50 limit because there is one accident blackspot in those 20 miles, address the issue?, change the junction?, stick in a mini round about? No just 1/2 the speed limit.:T


Variable speed limits are the only way to go in my view otherwise we will forover have these blanket impositions.

And inspite of my rant, some people will speed regardless of any limit

CHR15

stephief wrote: »

he was given a 7 day producer for his licence, which he lost years ago and never got round to getting replaced,

they have also said he can go on a driver awareness course instead of getting the points!

Has he had that in Writing??

I got caught many moons ago. On my way to produce my documents, my littl'un threw up all over me.

went back home, took my coat off (which had sick all over it) and started changing the littl'un (her clothes, not the child!)

By the time I had finished changing her my OH had stuffed my coat in the washing machine. It was happily tumbling around soaking wet with all my documents still inside.

I took all the mashed up pieces of paper which used to be my licence into the Police Station. I had already obtained a duplicate MOT, Insurance Cert and was only missing my licence.

The Police were great, they put a note on my file and told me to pay the fine but come back in when I got my replacement licence so they could send it off to get points added.

The Payment of my fine was rejected, even though I had the backing of the Police with names and reference numbers.


Long story, I ended up in Court in front of the Big Man.

The Judge said, "I have heard of laundering money Mr CHR15, but this is ridiculous"

He gave me 3 points and £60 - exactly the same as my fixed penalty, no Court costs.

The message is, the Police do not decide if it is okay with not producing a licence, even if they say they are happy.

KillerWatt

alastairq wrote: »

Speed cameras are in place, for one reason only..... enforcement of the law.

They are cash generators.

alastairq wrote: »

A speed camera is most likely to be placed where an Authority has discovered that road users exceeding the speed limit has created an increase in risk.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1227998/Speed-camera-rakes-500-000-year-blamed-doubling-motorway-casualties.html

alastairq wrote: »

The presence of a marked police car on the roadside has the same effect.

The occupants of a marked police vehicle are in a much better position to decide whether someone's driving is dangerous or not, whereas a camera will quite happily let a drunk drive home at 25mph.

exup

alastairq wrote: »

The idea that speed detection devices have anything to do with this mystical 'safety' is again, IMHO, a fatuous argument.

It is largely promoted by those who don't agree with their use.

Speed cameras are in place, for one reason only..... enforcement of the law.

They are very effective at doing so...and can free up Police to deal with other, less enforceable law-breaking.

The idea of some motorists that the Police should focus more on other law-breaking, is also unreasonable... the motorist would not be receiving the attentions of the Constabulary if they themselves weren't breaking the law in the first place....


Or...is it really more true to say, most motorists would prefer to drive in an environment of anarchy?

Mad Max, anyone?


Safety is the responsibility of each individual road user....it is not a team effort, or a collective responsibility.....but an individual one.

[Which is why, in order to use a motorised vehicle on the public highway, a licence is required.]

Safety is a misused word.

A speed camera is most likely to be placed where an Authority has discovered that road users exceeding the speed limit has created an increase in risk.

The response drivers give to a camera has nothing to do with the camera itself...but with the driver.

The presence of a marked police car on the roadside has the same effect.

So why do people continue to blame technology, the Authorities, anybody...except themselves?

I have no problem with speed cameras and patrol cars, but you are very naive if you think that speed cameras are placed in areas where exceeding the limit increases the risk of an accident.
Many speed cameras are placed in areas where they can "shoot fish in a barrel" There are many areas in West Yorkshire where they are placed in the middle of nowhere, and where no, or relatively few accidents occur.
Also talking with police officers, who themselves admit that various camera positions are simply there to catch speeders as accident rates at that place are very low.

M1 past Mansfield and Nottingham has just been opened back up to 70 limit again - now is four lanes wide, but is also littered with speed camera gantries. Probably about 1 or 2 minutes apart. Why? That strectch of motorway was certainly not known as an accident blackspot, and now they have supposedly improved the surface and widened the carriageways have they now made it more dangerous?
Or do they just expect people to put their foot down now so they cameras are there to bring in the money.
Incidentally, after the 50 limits were taken away and the national limit brought back in again, I was passed, travelling Northbound by 4 Police road traffic units (the battenburg volvos) all travelling close to 100 mph - seperated by probably 10 minutes from each other, none of which had their blue lights on << why did they think travelling at this speed was acceptable when they could be approaching other vehicles at a closing speed of 30 mph + who could be changing lanes infront of them. No blue lights - no emergency ?
The Police themselves speed, and often in an area which is inappropriate, and I don't mean when they have their blue lights and sirens going. I followed a police van in a 40 llimit travelling at about 5 feet behind a learner driver who was driving at a sensible speed (in this case 40 mph)
Why did the officer feel the need to drive like this, isn't his presence in a police van intimidating enough to a learner but to tailgate them aswell?

The people responsible for speed camera postions speed themselves,
The police speed, the judges, barristers, and all those involved with the legal process bringing speeders to court speed.

As for myself I don't slow down when I see a speed camera - I don't need to, but it's interesting to see the tailgater behind suddenly back right off as we pass over the timing markings on the road then close the gap again.

As for travelling in traffic, I don't really bother looking at the speedo - it won't tell me if I'm travelling at a safe speed, all it tells me is about how fast I'm going. as long as I can stop in time - that's all I'm worried about.
What speed do I travel at in a 30 limit? As speedometers arent that accurate I just drive at what's appropriate to the conditions at the time so it may or may not be 30