o2 Carphone Warehouse on Dont Get Done Get Dom

gjchester

JimArnold wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the networks cannot update your usage in real time when abroad or even in the UK? I have a £10 credit limit on my daughter contract phone and she's been allowed to go £20 over. Not a lot and its only happened twice

But Why?

See post 11 and 13.

Networks only send it to each other once a day.

Maybe they could do it more often but I suspect it's a big datafile to send off to each other and process.

Remember there are 195 countries each with multiple "real" networks, and virtual networks who all have to talk to each other each day and send the billing file.

Logistical nightmare to do it all in real time I suspect..

karatedragon

What I found particularly interesting was the Fortress CPW had behind the high level fencing and guarded barriers.

There must be a reason for this military style security.

Kilty_2

FLYING_SPANNER wrote: »

Well obviously this guy. He complied with the minimum requirements of the website, and if the option to report stolen phones by this method proves to be inadequate or insecure (as it appears in this case), then this option should be removed from the website.

Remember both Carphone Warehouse and O2 are companies that deal in communication, and they are partner companies, so they should be talking to each other.

My opinion maybe somewhat biased, but I think Dom was right. These companies unfairly treated this guy and they need to get their act together. Duty of care springs to mind.

Remember that Carphone Warehouse is a completely seperate entity from Telefonica O2 UK - who it seems is who he contacted.

If he's a "CPW O2" customer he will get his bill from Carphone Warehouse, not Telefonica O2 UK.

O2 are clearly realising this is a stupid operation hence any new customers joining via CPW are O2 UK customers by referral, not "CPW O2", which is being phased out (and lots of upgrading customers are automatically migrated)

coolesticeking

If I remember, PAYG when Abroad the Credit is Deducted using a system called CAMEL and the visiting network needs to using the same CAMEL system for a PAYG subscriber to be able to roam on that Network. That is why most PAYG Customers have less choice on Networks or Locations that a phone can be used on that Contract Customers.

Not every Network uses the same Billing System which is why it can take months depending on the types of Systems in place as lots of other people have said.

We have to remember that GSM has been in place since the 1980's so many changes have happened since then in regards to Billing Systems, Even in the UK no doubt each network has its own Billing System to be honest with you.

I do understand the bill is indeed very very high, but if Networks started to cap the bill say at £50 and you was in an emergency situation and needed to make lots of urgent phone calls would have you been happy if the phone was just cut off like that?

I remember that Watchdog had if I remember last year a story about people in a remote location not being able to get any signal for months and that was on O2. Again, it seems they forgot quite a few factors and didn't mention it in the report then either.

gjchester

karatedragon wrote: »

What I found particularly interesting was the Fortress CPW had behind the high level fencing and guarded barriers.

There must be a reason for this military style security.

Erm to protect their data and your details? Your assuming it's just CPW, many data centres have "military" style security, if data is lost then they loose account details, billing, administration, payroll and no end of other information.

First rule of any security setup is to deny physical access. If you can get to the computer itself you can do allsorts with an infected USB stick or cd/dvd in the drive. Deny someone the ability to get to the physical box and you instantly increase security.
Yes there are otherways to get to the computer and infect it, but it takes out one way in.

I'd be more suprised if they DIDN'T have that level of security at the datacentre.

Jon_01

JimArnold wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the networks cannot update your usage in real time when abroad or even in the UK? I have a £10 credit limit on my daughter contract phone and she's been allowed to go £20 over. Not a lot and its only happened twice

But Why?

My youngest has a PAYG and that is instantly accurate to a penny !

Other than making money for the network can anyone give a reason why the same accuracy cannot be applied ? Try taking a PAYG abroad and see if you can spend £3k

As gjchester say, when you're on your home network you're usage is being charged in real time by your network.
Once you start to roam you're usage is being collected by the roaming network. This data is sent to the home network once a day (in something called a TAP file). They all send 'high usage reports' so the home network can check you're roaming usage and contact you if it's very high.

karatedragon

gjchester wrote: »

Erm to protect their data and your details? Your assuming it's just CPW, many data centres have "military" style security, if data is lost then they loose account details, billing, administration, payroll and no end of other information.

First rule of any security setup is to deny physical access. If you can get to the computer itself you can do allsorts with an infected USB stick or cd/dvd in the drive. Deny someone the ability to get to the physical box and you instantly increase security.
Yes there are otherways to get to the computer and infect it, but it takes out one way in.

I'd be more suprised if they DIDN'T have that level of security at the datacentre.

I see. So I am sure it has nothing to do with irate customers visiting them for a chat about their problems.

gjchester

karatedragon wrote: »

I see. So I am sure it has nothing to do with irate customers visiting them for a chat about their problems.

Usually data centres are anonymous buildings miles from anywhere. Try and visit any data centre no matter what it's got inside and you will be told politely to go away, then no so politely.

Another key part of security is you don't advertise what you do. ie no "CARPHONE WAREHOUSE MAIN WORLDWIDE DATA CENTRE" on the front door sign. The goal is just another building by the roadside. In fact if it's done right you'll never even notice the place, as it will be screened with soft landscaping as well as protected by concrete.

Only the people who need to be there should be. All admin work, customer support, management, in fact *everything* should be in another building miles away. The only people who should be there are the techs, anyone else is a security risk.

JimArnold

Jon_01 wrote: »

As gjchester say, when you're on your home network you're usage is being charged in real time by your network.
Once you start to roam you're usage is being collected by the roaming network. This data is sent to the home network once a day (in something called a TAP file). They all send 'high usage reports' so the home network can check you're roaming usage and contact you if it's very high.

Still think its funny that that PAYG can be counted to a penny but not contract - EVEN in the UK

Perhaps Brussels will sort it out for us andf require companies to start real time charging - it is clearly possible

Jon_01

JimArnold wrote: »

Still think its funny that that PAYG can be counted to a penny but not contract - EVEN in the UK

Perhaps Brussels will sort it out for us andf require companies to start real time charging - it is clearly possible

In the UK, of course. Roaming, some networks can.

As someone said above, the systems called CAMEL and can track payg usage in realtime, BUT payg acc can only use a few oversea's networks as not all support CAMEL. That's why in some country's you can only use contract phones, they don't support payg at all as they can't afford to install CAMEL.

Brussels can say what they like, but they can't compel networks to install millions of pounds worth of new IT. And they have no control of any network outside the EU where most of these problems come from.