300,000 jobs in public sector face the axe

Old_Slaphead

custardy wrote: »

how exactly do the low paid not contribute?

Of course everyone who consumes contributes.

I heard the other day on the R4 Today radio prog, a young unemployed lady was being interviewed about claiming various benefits
"I don't feel guilty at all - I fully deserve every penny I get - after all I pay a lot of taxes on the cigarettes that I buy"

ILW

marklv wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Most of these ultra-high paid financial services 'professionals' are nothing but glorified salespeople. Even fund managers, whose performance is often routinely beaten by the FTSE All Share index, are just self-important upstarts with opprobriously high incomes.

The reason many earn so much is their ability to persuade others to give them the money to play with. Very few have the contacts or skills to do it.

marklv

ILW wrote: »

The reason many earn so much is their ability to persuade others to give them the money to play with. Very few have the contacts or skills to do it.

There are plenty of successful horse race betting tipsters........

headcone

ILW wrote: »

The reason many earn so much is their ability to persuade others to give them the money to play with. Very few have the contacts or skills to do it.

Contacts is the relevant issue here.

Westminster,Eton,Harrow,Charterhouse(which a very close relative attended)

Will put you in positions of power no matter how stupid you are.

Democracy innit?:cool:

mbga9pgf

mitchaa wrote: »

The military benefit from a non contributory final salary pension,surely this should be looked at? NHS/Police etc at least have contributory pension schemes.

No we don't, we have a 7% pay abatement at the moment to cover our pensions. I will contribute as soon as I get that 7 years worth of pay at. 7% backdated.

marklv

mbga9pgf wrote: »

No we don't, we have a 7% pay abatement at the moment to cover our pensions. I will contribute as soon as I get that 7 years worth of pay at. 7% backdated.

How does this work exactly?

Altarf

princeofpounds wrote: »

Well we can estimate quite roughly how good state pensions are. Here is a worked example for the NHS...

... Let's also assume a salary of 30k, which isn't far off the national average for public sector workers and is a nice round number.

It may be a nice round number, but it isn't the national average for public sector workers - http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/Civil-service-tables-2009-final.xls Table 6

Regarding the arguments about 'professionals' vs 'pen pushers'

Table 1 in the above gives a good split of the roles and Table 26 of the salary for each role. Table 42 is interesting for the split of staff across government departments.

Senior Civil Service - 4,923 employees, median salary £77,440
Grade 6 and 7 - 34,947 employees, median salary £51,060
Senior and Higher Executive Officers - 100,423 employees, median salary £31,980
Executive Officers - 131,304 employees, median salary £23,540
Administrative Officers and Assistants - 249,989 employees, median salary £17,390

The 4,923 SCS and 34,947 Grade 6 and 7s would certainly fall within most peoples descriptions of a 'professional' role. It might be argued that some of the 100,423 SEO and HEOs fall within the definition, but I would not agree. For the Executive Officers, given that the entry qualifications is two A levels, they almost certainly would not. So 73% of the Civil Service are definitely not in a 'professional' role, and another 19% are probably not.

Therefore with 8% within the description of a 'professional' role and 73% definitely not, and for those 73% median earnings of £17,390 for the bulk of that group, I think that is a definite answer for 'professional' vs 'pen pusher'.

sookipeaspud

Why are the failed private sector capitalistic staff moaning about the lower paid civil staff?

thescouselander

Altarf wrote: »

It may be a nice round number, but it isn't the national average for public sector workers - http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/Civil-service-tables-2009-final.xls Table 6

Regarding the arguments about 'professionals' vs 'pen pushers'

Table 1 in the above gives a good split of the roles and Table 26 of the salary for each role. Table 42 is interesting for the split of staff across government departments.

Senior Civil Service - 4,923 employees, median salary £77,440
Grade 6 and 7 - 34,947 employees, median salary £51,060
Senior and Higher Executive Officers - 100,423 employees, median salary £31,980
Executive Officers - 131,304 employees, median salary £23,540
Administrative Officers and Assistants - 249,989 employees, median salary £17,390

The 4,923 SCS and 34,947 Grade 6 and 7s would certainly fall within most peoples descriptions of a 'professional' role. It might be argued that some of the 100,423 SEO and HEOs fall within the definition, but I would not agree. For the Executive Officers, given that the entry qualifications is two A levels, they almost certainly would not. So 73% of the Civil Service are definitely not in a 'professional' role, and another 19% are probably not.

Therefore with 8% within the description of a 'professional' role and 73% definitely not, and for those 73% median earnings of £17,390 for the bulk of that group, I think that is a definite answer for 'professional' vs 'pen pusher'.

I'd say a good number of HEO/SEO grades are professional. For example many government Scientists and Engineers (who are Chartered by the relevant professional organisation) work at this level - same with other roles like accountants etc.

Altarf

thescouselander wrote: »

I'd say a good number of HEO/SEO grades are professional. For example many government Scientists and Engineers (who are Chartered by the relevant professional organisation) work at this level - same with other roles like accountants etc.

I might agree 'some', but would disagree with 'a good number'. You are correct that some government Scientists and Engineers and some junior accountants work at this level, but (for example) do you think that there are that many Scientists and Engineers and junior accountants amongst the 11,820 HEO/SEOs working in the Ministry of Justice or the 16,820 working in HMRC?

Anyway irrespective of the above, of the 520,000 civil servants, 381,000 are Executive Officers Administative Officers or Administative Assistants, who I think we agree would not fall within the description of a 'professional' role.