300,000 jobs in public sector face the axe

kriss_boy

People are ignoring the fact that the majority of council workers are underpaid in comparison to alike jobs in the private sector.

The terms and conditions of the public sector compensate for that but its a lesser wage nonetheless.

StevieJ

marklv wrote: »

Nonsensical rubbish born of envy - precisely what you accuse the so-called 'lefties' of. If you envy the public sector pension, go and bl**dy well work there!! :mad:

They wouldn't have him

JasonLVC

marklv wrote: »

You're just being a silly !!!.

If you want to compare benefits you have to compare job function per job function, not simply public v private. Prat.

So in the absence of a decent argument you resort to name calling. That alone is sufficient to render your argument lost.

You posted "The public sector is mostly office based and professional, so when you compare you should do like for like." and I challenged that statement.

We're not talking about a job, or your job, we're talking about the entire public sector (that's what this thread is about yes) and I refute the view that civil servants are all office based and professionals. Perhaps you can post some stats to validate your comments.

Do you wish to engage in a proper debate about the subject or revert to name calling?

marklv

kennyboy66 wrote: »

There is no magic bullet but someone needs to consider most of the following.

1) Increase income tax rather than National Insurance. In what possible way is it useful to burden the workers rather than everyone with tax increases ?
2) Make people work longer sooner.
3) Make all new recruits go on a a "career average" style pension
4) Make existing members on final salary pay significantly more for their pension.
5) Close final salary schemes and put everyone into a "career average" pension (but protect existing rights).

There will be no winners, just varying degree of losers.

1) I would only increase the higher rates of income tax, not the basic rate.
2) Insane idea. Who needs a workforce of geriatrics!
3) This is already happening in the civil service. The rest of the public sector will follow soon.
4) Already happening.
5) As for 3.

marklv

JasonLVC wrote: »

So in the absence of a decent argument you resort to name calling. That alone is sufficient to render your argument lost.

You posted "The public sector is mostly office based and professional, so when you compare you should do like for like." and I challenged that statement.

We're not talking about a job, or your job, we're talking about the entire public sector (that's what this thread is about yes) and I refute the view that civil servants are all office based and professionals. Perhaps you can post some stats to validate your comments.

Do you wish to engage in a proper debate about the subject or revert to name calling?

I'm sorry, but you really are a pompous prat. I don't care about what you refute, I know that what you say is wrong! Nearly all civil servants are white collar workers - a much higher proportion than in the private sector. And the proportion of professionals in the public sector is also much higher than in the private sector - this is an established fact and I don't need to prove it to you!

marklv

thescouselander wrote: »

I see, well I apoligise if I have misunderstood. Public sector pensions are indeed generous but they are often accompanied by lower pay when compared with a like for like private sector job - its almost like deferring pay in some respects.

Personally I'd have no problem with ending the current scheme I'm in and increasing pay to the full market rate so I could make my own arrangements. At least I wouldn't have to worry about some future government moving the goal posts.

Indeed - pensions in the pubic sector are deferred pay! Already, when I am contacted by employment agents (which is almost every other day) they speak in terms of 'package', not basic pay. My civil service pension is worth around 20% of basic pay, so I add that to my basic to come up with overall package. Then I compare that with the private sector jobs on offer to find the level I'm at. It's the overall pay package that matters, not the basic pay!

sjaypink

marklv wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you really are a pompous prat. I don't care about what you refute, I know that what you say is wrong! Nearly all civil servants are white collar workers - a much higher proportion than in the private sector. And the proportion of professionals in the public sector is also much higher than in the private sector - this is an established fact and I don't need to prove it to you!

Sorry to butt in, but what exactly defines 'professional' ? I've always assumed it broadly referred to graduates, but this can't be what you're suggesting...? :A

kennyboy66_2

marklv wrote: »

1) I would only increase the higher rates of income tax, not the basic rate.
.

you do surprise me.

Our politicians have become obsessed with lowering the rate of basic tax while at the same time loading NI (both Employers & Employees) at the same time.

This makes no sense whatsoever. They are both taxes - but one is only paid by the poor suckers who work.

In addition we now have a vast swathe of pensioners who had tax relief on all contributions at a more favourable rate than the current tax rate (which they pay on their annuity).

kennyboy66_2

sjaypink wrote: »

Sorry to butt in, but what exactly defines 'professional' ? I've always assumed it broadly referred to graduates, but this can't be what you're suggesting...? :A

http://www.touchstoneblog.org.uk/2009/12/more-about-public-versus-private-sector-pay/

I've linked to this blog which suggests that 39% of public sector have a degree or equivalent as against 20.2%.

I find this somewhat a huge difference but not sure if for example if all Nurses would be counted as a degree or equivalent (I know that is what is planned)

kennyboy66_2

sjaypink wrote: »

Sorry to butt in, but what exactly defines 'professional' ? I've always assumed it broadly referred to graduates, but this can't be what you're suggesting...? :A

If your 'profession' is mainly self regulating, both to standards and entry, I would say that you are in an old fashioned profession.

eg Doctors, Solicitors, Accountants etc

Other occupations may describe themselves as professional and be qualified to a high standard but generally don't have the same level of self regulation.

If you are a member of a union - that probably contradicts being a member of a "Profession"