300,000 jobs in public sector face the axe

sjaypink

kennyboy66 wrote: »

http://www.touchstoneblog.org.uk/2009/12/more-about-public-versus-private-sector-pay/

I've linked to this blog which suggests that 39% of public sector have a degree or equivalent as against 20.2%.

I find this somewhat a huge difference but not sure if for example if all Nurses would be counted as a degree or equivalent (I know that is what is planned)

Ah... teachers and doctors- i thought we were just talking civil service rather than public sector...

Anyhow, yeah, we've all degrees dontchaknow thats why we've gone into civil service, earn under the eligible student loan repayment amount for the next 40 years- don't see why we should repay those media studies fees- hasn't helped us learn how to work the photocopier... or the tea urn

daveyjp

"If you are a member of a union - that probably contradicts being a member of a "Profession""

That's lost me.

Civil Service, Local Authorities, NHS, etc etc employ thousands of traditional professionals (generally implying letters after your name indicating the profession you belong to) lawyers, chartered surveyors, chartered town planners, chartered engineers, chartered accountants, etc etc and many of them are in unions.

treliac

kennyboy66 wrote: »

I find this somewhat a huge difference but not sure if for example if all Nurses would be counted as a degree or equivalent (I know that is what is planned)

All 'professional' nurse training is at degree level now. It's led to what is sometimes termed the 'career nurse', which some think has detracted from the caring, comforting, bed-pan emptying nurse.

marklv

kennyboy66 wrote: »

If your 'profession' is mainly self regulating, both to standards and entry, I would say that you are in an old fashioned profession.

eg Doctors, Solicitors, Accountants etc

Other occupations may describe themselves as professional and be qualified to a high standard but generally don't have the same level of self regulation.

If you are a member of a union - that probably contradicts being a member of a "Profession"

I work in IT in a professional/managerial capacity (i.e. not just some bloke on a helpdesk) and in my opinion the best defintion of a professional job is one in which you have extensive decision making responsibility, based on acquired expert knowledge. In short, a professional is an expert in a given field.

marklv

kennyboy66 wrote: »

you do surprise me.

Our politicians have become obsessed with lowering the rate of basic tax while at the same time loading NI (both Employers & Employees) at the same time.

This makes no sense whatsoever. They are both taxes - but one is only paid by the poor suckers who work.

In addition we now have a vast swathe of pensioners who had tax relief on all contributions at a more favourable rate than the current tax rate (which they pay on their annuity).

So what use is it to raise basic rate tax? That will hurt mainly low and low-to-middle income taxpayers. And why hurt pensioners on low incomes?
I still maintain that the upper sector of the working population has had it too good for too long - and now it's time to pay up. I would reduce the 50% tax rate from 150k down to 90k or thereabouts, and put the 40% rate up to 42%.

treliac

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional

A profession is a vocation founded upon specialised educational training, the purpose of which is to supply disinterested counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain.

I think this would best define 'profession' - see the link for more detail.

marklv

kabayiri wrote: »

No sweeping statements there then! What is your anger at these people? They are just earning a living.

The reason the big consultancies exist is because of their perceived need from their customers.

They know that public sector clients dont usually have the in-house capability these days; they can therefore charge what they feel is attainable.

For every block of unnecessary work from a consultancy there will be a customer who doesn't actually know what they want, and who keeps changing the requirements on a regular basis.

Part of the 1.7bn saving will be coming out of savings from consultancies....that must please you.

Consultancies are parasitic organisations. The perceived need for them from customers is generated by senior managers who are contantly seeking 'improvement' in the running of a business even when no real improvement is either realistically achievable or necessary. Consultancies thrive on this management culture that seems to have been born in MBA business schools rather than the real world. The end result is that enormous sums are spent on management consultants without a tangible end result that can justify this expense. These consultants are certainly very clever, I'll grant them that, and they are also good at selling themselves, but in my experience the benefits they offer are marginal when compared to the high cost. I believe it is scandalous that such organisations have been used in the public sector. This is a practice that must end - the sooner, the better.

marklv

treliac wrote: »

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional



I think this would best define 'profession' - see the link for more detail.

I consider this an outdated defintion. It defines the old established professions, but not the new ones.

treliac

marklv wrote: »

I consider this an outdated defintion. It defines the old established professions, but not the new ones.

It depends where you personally sit, I'd say. What someone might call their profession, someone else would call their job.

JasonLVC

marklv wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you really are a pompous prat. I don't care about what you refute, I know that what you say is wrong! Nearly all civil servants are white collar workers - a much higher proportion than in the private sector. And the proportion of professionals in the public sector is also much higher than in the private sector - this is an established fact and I don't need to prove it to you!

...and you called me pompous prat!:rotfl:

Still with the insults and unprepared to validate your comments - that shows immaturity, not something you'd usually associate with a 'professional' - but at least it is now clear you're not here to actually have a sensible debate* on the subject.

*debate - to consider contrasting opinion, to illuminate others, to discuss opposing points.