Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Meeper

HappyMJ wrote: »

It's the sales wording again...significant savings...hundreds of pounds...As I demonstrated earlier the savings are £60 on a duel fuel spend of £1240 of spend with British Gas and E-On (the east midlands incumbent supplier). That's neither significant nor is it hundreds.

All I can tell you is my personal experience. Based on the existing tariffs that the vast majority of my customers were on before I introduced them to UW, there has been significant savings, well into the hundreds. Comparison site and hypothetical figures are all well and good. I have taken people's bills away with me, done a like-for-like exact comparison based on their previous tariff and the best UW option, and if I have been able to save them money, sign them up. I have only had 2 people in the last 12 months who I have told that I cannot help them, they are on an excellent deal which i cannot beat.

Cardew

Meeper wrote: »

But anyhow, on to your prices:

I don't dispute any of those prices, neither do I agree with them. Honestly, I haven't looked at the BT website or done any of the laborious "busy fool" research that you are talking about in your post. I have no basis to agree or disagree with the quality of the BT service or their prices for the exact items you have mentioned.

With regard to VAT - my answer is thus:

My broadcall package is £24.99 per month + £1 for the wireless router, making £25.99 in total. On my bill, it is broken down as my package costing £21.66 with VAT of £4.33 making a total of £25.99. So, for the telephony and broadband packages, these figures are inclusive of VAT.

Here you go about the gas & electricity again. Why is it so hard for you to believe that the UW energy is cheaper than MANY PEOPLE are paying currently?

Are there cheaper "special" deal options? Yes.
Is the UW energy the absolute cheapest option available in the UK? No.
Does the UW energy STILL represent a significant saving in monthly cost for a MASSIVE amount of people. A resounding yes.
Does the UW package AS A WHOLE represent significant savings for a MASSIVE amount of people. An even more resounding yes.

There is nothing to dispute the fact that millions and millions of people in the UK are paying standard tariffs with British Gas, Scottish Power, and the rest of the Big 6 energy companies. Millions of them. UW energy and particular UW's overall proposition would save these people HUNDREDS of pounds per year.

Let's strip away all of the nonsense and get down to the bottom line here: There is a company out there who can reduce people's outgoings by hundreds of pounds per year based on what they are currently paying - why do you hate them so?

Thank you,

Your reply on VAT indicates that the charges on the website do not include VAT. You posted earlier:

I would rather go with (for the 40GB version): £20 + £1.50 online membership + £0.00 for a fixed router, total cost £21.50 per month.

Above:

My broadcall package is £24.99 per month + £1 for the wireless router, making £25.99 in total. On my bill, it is broken down as my package costing £21.66 with VAT of £4.33 making a total of £25.99.

So it would appear that the £19.99 advertised price for line rental and 40GB Broadband and is indeed VAT exclusive and will be £24.99 VAT inclusive?

So unless you take several other UW services, for line rental, broadband and the phone package the cost will be £19.99 + £1.50 + £7.75 + VAT = £35.08.

Just to re-iterate other than the quote I gave you from the UW website(that all charges were subject to VAT) I have no way of finding out the position on VAT for those prices, and I am relying on your figures above.

So a figure of £35.08 monthly is some £7.38 more than I pay for a BT package with far more facilities - as shown above. Or £6.91 for a new user. Or £11.78 more than HappyMJ pays for the same facilities but only evening weekend calls.

I totally agree that if there are 75% of people on Standard tariff gas and electricity, that they should move to a cheaper tariff.

However I cannot understand why you feel they should move to a UW tariff. I have already posted that virtually all the Standard Tariffs of the Big 6(and others) are cheaper than UW.

Also that there are 60+ internet tariffs that are much cheaper than UW

Gas 16,500kWh pa Electricity 3,300kWh pa Midlands area paying by DD.

According to energyhelpline the following are cheaper:

BG standard tariff

N Power Standard tariff

National Trust

SSE standard tariff

M & S energy Standard tariff

Scottish Power Standard Tariff

E-On Standard Tariff

EDF Standard Tariff

OVO - non-internet and paper bills

Of course it is very convenient for you to want the comparison confined to Standard tariffs, even though virtually all of the major companies are cheaper than UW.

However this is a money saving website, so the real comparison to demonstrate UW's very high gas and electricity prices is to compare UW with all available tariffs. If you do this for the above circumstances UW are 17.1% more expensive.

The Cheapest for the above is £1033 pa and the cheapest UW tariff is £1210. So UW is £177 more expensive.

Ok so we have shown that the BT telecoms package(which I am sure isn't the cheapest) is cheaper than UW by a considerable margin.


For the average gas and electricity consumer in Midlands(but will be everywhere else) is £177 cheaper.


So if gas, electricity, phone and broadband, can be shown to be much cheaper than UW, on what grounds can you contend that the UW package 'as a whole' represents significant savings?


On the contrary it it is an indisputable fact that the UW package will cost most people a great deal of money.

P.S.
Those of us well used to the tactics of [STRIKE]1carminestocky[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]carespress[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Operastar[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]a.n.other[/STRIKE], MilicentBystander almost feel sorry he is struggling so much.

penrhyn

For comparison I pay £7.50 /month for Sky Unlimited broadband (LLU)
Up to 20Mbps but I only get around 8Mbps as I'm 3Km from the exchange.
12 months line rental up front @ £119.40.
The talk free service includes free evening and weekend calls, 1571 and caller display @ £0 /month.
You have to be a sky subscriber to get the above prices, if you're not it £2.50 /month extra.

Meeper

Cardew wrote: »

So it would appear that the £19.99 advertised price for line rental and 40GB Broadband and is indeed VAT exclusive and will be £24.99 VAT inclusive?

No. You're comparing two different things. Mine is the max package, the 40GB package is £19.99 and includes VAT, making this:

So unless you take several other UW services, for line rental, broadband and the phone package the cost will be £19.99 + £1.50 + £7.75 + VAT = £35.08.

incorrect.

Just to re-iterate other than the quote I gave you from the UW website(that all charges were subject to VAT) I have no way of finding out the position on VAT for those prices, and I am relying on your figures above.

Which unfortunately, you misunderstood or mis-stated.

So a figure of £35.08 monthly is some £7.38 more than I pay for a BT package with far more facilities - as shown above. Or £6.91 for a new user. Or £11.78 more than HappyMJ pays for the same facilities but only evening weekend calls.

Not right, as per above.

I totally agree that if there are 75% of people on Standard tariff gas and electricity, that they should move to a cheaper tariff.

However I cannot understand why you feel they should move to a UW tariff. I have already posted that virtually all the Standard Tariffs of the Big 6(and others) are cheaper than UW.

Obviously not, otherwise why would people move? It would be stupid to move to something that was more expensive. See my previous post - I don't move people if they are on a cheaper deal already, but unfortunately for your argument this has only happened to me twice in the last 12 months. Cue your arguments of "I don't believe you", which is your prerogative. It's true though.

Ok so we have shown that the BT telecoms package(which I am sure isn't the cheapest) is cheaper than UW by a considerable margin.

No we haven't, see above!

For the average gas and electricity consumer in Midlands(but will be everywhere else) is £177 cheaper.

So if gas, electricity, phone and broadband, can be shown to be much cheaper than UW, on what grounds can you contend that the UW package 'as a whole' represents significant savings?

See my response to HappyMJ above. Just my experience. Perhaps the Midlands is a strange place...

On the contrary it it is an indisputable fact that the UW package will cost most people a great deal of money.

I dispute that, therefore it is not indisputable. Bad luck.

P.S.
Those of us well used to the tactics of [STRIKE]1carminestocky[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]carespress[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]Operastar[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]a.n.other[/STRIKE], MilicentBystander almost feel sorry he is struggling so much.

Please provide proof that MBS is any of the other people you have mentioned.

MillicentBystander

And to think Cardew accused ME of 'not getting it' last night. Jeez, this is hilarious but makes me feel guilty for laughing it at the same time. Can anyone else try and convince him that VAT is included in the £19.99 and £24.99 UW broadcall packages? It's not fair leaving it all to Meeper, I know from personal experience it can be an exhausting experience at the best of times.

Off for a Lana Del Rey you tube night. Have fun, all (and, Meeper, good luck in your quest but there will very probably come a time when you may decide he just ain't worth it)

keggs

MillicentBystander wrote: »

And to think Cardew accused ME of 'not getting it' last night. Jeez, this is hilarious but makes me feel guilty for laughing it at the same time. Can anyone else try and convince him that VAT is included in the £19.99 and £24.99 UW broadcall packages? It's not fair leaving it all to Meeper, I know from personal experience it can be an exhausting experience at the best of times.

Off for a Lana Del Rey you tube night. Have fun, all (and, Meeper, good luck in your quest but there will very probably come a time when you may decide he just ain't worth it)

I gave up a long time ago. I'm more than convinced that certain people, Cardew in particular is just arguing for sake of arguing, and trying to trip people up.

Fact 1. UW is not the cheapest but they are if people take 4 services. That's guaranteed and I for one believe the guarantee even if people like Quentin don't.

Fact 2. UW offers a great deal for many people

Fact 3. Distributors don't twist arms - they aren't professional sales people. They are just customers who get paid for recommending services to other people. This solves a big problem for companies - they don't need to employ anyone to talk to people.

Fact 4. ALL prices listed in the residential tariff booklet and on the web site are INCLUSIVE OF VAT. The business tariff booklet is exclusive of VAT. That's standard practice I believe.

Cardew

Meeper,
I see you have the unlimited download.

Therefore my figures were incorrect and for the 40GB package + unlimited calls + on-line the UW customer would pay £19.99 + £7.75 + £1.50 = £29.24 ( I am assuming the £7.75 and £1.50 are VAT inclusive? - if those two are VAT exclusive the total is £31.09) This is assuming the line is LLU or they will pay even more.

That compares with the £27.70 I pay BT for a vastly better package with a lot more facilities, and the £30.17 a newly joined customer would pay BT - again with all the extra facilities. Also of course BT are far from the cheapest package.

On gas and energy prices, I explained how UW are £177 more than the cheapest tariff in the Midlands. As you muse the Midlands might be a strange place, I checked other districts and indeed the difference was less. In Scotland(SP) UW were £174 more expensive, Yorkshire £170 and London £176. I am happy to check other districts for you if you feel that those four Districts are not representative.

So that is pretty conclusive proof that UW's phone and Broadband is around the same price as BT but that BT with all the extras as detailed above are clearly far better value.

UW's Gas and electricity is vastly more expensive than the cheapest tariffs for all users in UK a figure of £170+ a year for someone with the average UK consumption.

Surely you cannot dispute those figures?


P.S.
On the multi-named poster, do you not feel he would challenge if it was incorrect? - or have you asked him?

Meeper

Well, sorry to burst your bubble on the post that you obviously feel has won the day, but I'm afraid that I stick to my previous comment that regardless of what the comparison sites say and what your random "average consumption" figures may be today, I have compared, for ALL of my customers, the relevant UW tariff compared to the one they were on, and on only TWO occasions we have not been cheaper. Now, there could be many reasons for this, all of which are a mystery to me. The fact of the matter is that IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER A JOT.

All of the people I have seen (except two) have saved money by switching to UW services.

PS. On the multi-named poster, as you describe, he doesn't have to challenge anything, nor have I asked him. You make the accusation, so it's up to you to back it up. You can do that, right? You seem so hell-bent on proving everything else to the minutiae, surely you can come up with some evidence about this also?

I'm off for the night. Argue with yourself for a bit.

Cardew

keggs wrote: »

Fact 4. ALL prices listed in the residential tariff booklet and on the web site are INCLUSIVE OF VAT. The business tariff booklet is exclusive of VAT. That's standard practice I believe.

From the new UW website in the gas and electricity price comparison:

Rates for monthly Direct Debit payment.
Please note that to enable you to compare our prices with the amount you are paying to your existing supplier (as shown on your latest bill), the above figures exclude VAT at the domestic rate of 5%.

Was the same on the old website - all prices were given without VAT.

The new website also states on the Broadband section:

All our charges are subject to VAT at the prevailing rate.

In some parts e.g. telephone call rates, it specifically states these prices include VAT, and as shown by Meeper the Broadband £19.99/24.99 is VAT inclusive.

So fact 4 is just as inaccurate as your facts 1,2 & 3.

Quentin

keggs wrote: »

Fact 1. UW is not the cheapest but they are if people take 4 services. That's guaranteed and I for one believe the guarantee......

Not "Fact", but fiction.

Unless you are offering your customers your own "guarantee" if they take 4 services from you, then then this is just more false and misleading spam from a UW rep.

There is no "guarantee" given that if we take gas and electricuty plus 2 more services we will be getting the cheapest deal. (Though the UW website does misleadingly tell us that UW supply the cheapest standard gas and electricity in the UK).

In fact were it true, we would all be queing up to sign up, and Martin would be emailing this revelation to everyone!

But of course its not true at all! Just more misuse of a forum to wrongly advertise the savings we cannot actually get!