police broke door down and won't pay for it

ifstar

If someone is reported as missing, then the cops have to do something. Are you speaking from any point of experience or just guessing along on what you've heard from people?

Your right the landlady didn't do anything wrong, the ex-tenant who left and didn't happen to inform his work he was never coming back did and he is the one that should be getting chased.

Oh and there doesn't have to be screams or loud noises reported in the last few hours, if someone phones with a genuine concern then the police have a duty of care to investigate. How do you know what they were told by the employer who reported the guy missing? It could be that they said that xyz has been really down lately and hasn't shown up for work and thats very out of character for him. That is a genuine concern when people do things that aren't normal behaviour for them. If someone has taken an overdose then time is a big factor.

Kay_Peel

I think you have cause to make a complaint. Phone the local force's call centre and ask to be put through the Inspector covering the area where it happened. Tell him or her you wish to make an appointment to make an official complaint.

The police DO have a common law power of entry onto premises to save life and limb or prevent damage. This usually covers cases where elderly people haven't been seen for a couple of days, the curtains are drawn and there's milk bottles building up on the doorstep. It covers cases where there is loud shouting and screaming and someone believes that the occupant is being beaten up.

It does not cover cases where the occupant has been reported AWOL by his employers. The police would have to have extra information - like the employer believed that the missing person was suicidal, mentally unbalanced, was known to have a gun or was in possession of a large quantity of pills. Things like that. The police would have had to speak to neighbours and contact the landlord to get as full a picture as possible - unless they were sure that the man was inside and harming himself/unconscious etc.

So you can either make a complaint to the police (and find out all the circumstances, but not get your money back) or you should see a solicitor (to write you a letter claiming the cost of repair/replacement.)

It sounds to me like the police will be unable to justify their use of common law powers and will have to pay up.

Good luck!

pinkshoes

If the tenant didn't notify work that he'd moved out, then he should be paying for the door.

I do think the police were wrong not to phone the LL though, as they were given the number by the neighbour, it would have taken them 30 seconds, and she would have told them that he'd moved out over 2 weeks ago. If the phone wasn't answered, then fair enough, bash down the door, but they didn't even try... On this basis, they should pay out.

At the very least make a complaint to the police.

Errata

In an emergency, which this appears to be, the police can't be hanging around after they've called a LL waiting for them to turn up with a key.

Triggles

I have to agree with Kay Peel on this one. However, in order to find out specifics you may have to do a few things:
- speak to the officer that handled the situation, and if necessary, his supervisor
- request a copy of the report, as it will have the breakdown of what happened, including what information they had to hand to make the decisions they did
- speak again to the insurance company and keep them informed

A lot of it will hinge on what information they were given in regards to the missing person report. I would imagine this must have had some information indicating a concern for his welfare, as otherwise the caller would have been advised that it is not a crime for someone to simply not show up for work or be out of touch with people for a few days.

The police can (and have) paid for damages on situations where they did not follow procedure, however, it has not yet been established what the exact circumstances were. In order to do this, someone needs to get the copy of the report and possibly speak to the officer involved. I'm not sure who you spoke to from the police department, but if they point blank told you nothing would be done, then you need to go up the chain of command until you get someone who can and will discuss this situation with you.

Again, I am not saying specifically that the police are in the wrong here, as I do not know all the details and neither do you. It all hinges on the missing person report and what is said in there as to the level of urgency involved.

ventureuk

The replies recently posted are pure poppycock, unless posters have both knowledge of the legislation, its use and interpretation then I would refer you back to my previous post. The common law power of entry is a preserved power relating to BOP, Sect 17 PACE covers life and limb entry. Please don't post unless you know what you are talking about it will only send the OP off in the wrong direction and that is not at all helpful.

vaio

ventureuk wrote: »

The replies recently posted are pure poppycock, unless posters have both knowledge of the legislation, its use and interpretation then I would refer you back to my previous post. The common law power of entry is a preserved power relating to BOP, Sect 17 PACE covers life and limb entry. Please don't post unless you know what you are talking about it will only send the OP off in the wrong direction and that is not at all helpful.

Yep, as you say PACE does give the right of entry in some circumstances, but it’s not an absolute unquestionable right. What this case hinges on is

• Whether the information the police had about the “missing person” was sufficient to generate a reason for breaking in at all.
• Whether the information was sufficient to justify immediate entry rather than delaying for 30 seconds whilst they phoned the landlord, once the neighbours had provided her details.
• Whether they used excessive force i.e. knocked the door off to test their shiny new battering ram rather than just smashing a window.

From the info the OP has given I’d say there is at least a question mark on all three of these points and further investigation is justified.

To be honest I think that unquestioning acceptance of whatever the police say & do is far more dangerous & unhelpful than excessive scrutiny

Triggles

Venture - Please don't be dismissive of opposing views. You may have an extensive knowledge of legislation, but that doesn't necessarily make you correct. Having worked in law enforcement for well over 15 years, I have seen situations where the police did indeed pay for damages to property in situations where they acted inappropriately. But, as I said, it remains to be seen if they did or not in this particular situation - which is why I advised the OP to look at the police report and speak to the officer or his supervisor.

ventureuk

Triggles wrote: »

Venture - Please don't be dismissive of opposing views. You may have an extensive knowledge of legislation, but that doesn't necessarily make you correct. Having worked in law enforcement for well over 15 years, I have seen situations where the police did indeed pay for damages to property in situations where they acted inappropriately. But, as I said, it remains to be seen if they did or not in this particular situation - which is why I advised the OP to look at the police report and speak to the officer or his supervisor.

Challenging inappropriate legal advice based on incorrect legislation is far from acting dismissively. If you have learned anything after 15yrs in law enforcement it should be that there is little or no case law around Sect 17 (e). The closest unlawful use of the power is R v Veneroso in 2002 which centred around entry whilst a third party was already in hospital with the Police in full knowledge.

Hence the reason why a civil case would fail in the circumstances described.

The OP should simply use the bond which they should, as proper landlords, have retained from the tenant to go towards repairs.

The OP should be advised that if they decide to persue this matter with the Police then unless they are entirely above board, have registered with HMRC , are declaring the rent as income, have conducted the yearly checks required on gas and electrical appliances with certificates etc etc then they could be opening a whole box vipers.

Believe me if you decide to take the Police to Court you had better be squeaky clean and entirely above board or your bill for a new door may be insignificant when faced with a tax investigation by HMRC and prosecution by the HSE.

Don't take a knife to a gun fight.

Triggles

You can quote all the legislation and court information you'd like. I simply stand by what I know to be correct. And I would advise you to read comments carefully before dismissing them, as I did not specifically advise the OP to take the police to court. I advised them to find out specifically what occurred before making any further decisions.

As for not taking a knife to a gun fight, I think that in a general battle of wits, you may be armed, but obviously have not taken the safety off your weapon, so I will step down and allow you to wander away with a bit of dignity.