How bad is this?

Debt_Free_Chick

silvercar wrote:

Nothing has to be re-done if its over 4 years old.

I agree that no enforcement action can be taken, due to the absence of building regulations. But you would think the solicitor would know this and say so.

However, the problem might not be a fear of enforcement - but a safety fear. That said, building regs these days are less to do with safety and I'm sure they are designed by the building trade simply to force you to buy more and more relatively unnecessary products! Or a blatant "nannying" exercise by the Gubmint :mad:

My gripes on building regs are ..... having to build an excessively insulated (heat & sound) extension, on to a 40 year old house with NO insulation of any description and not even cavity walls! As a result, I can only expect the extension to cause the rest of the house to "sweat" :mad:

Still, at least I shall be able to open all the horrid plastic trickle vents I've been forced to have in the beautiful new timber framed double-glazed windows which I'm installing throughout whole house, because I can't be trusted to simply open a window to allow for necessary ventilation! Double-:mad:

But I digress My real issue is that the solicitor is not advising his client (the OP) by explaining what the lack of building regs actually means. Saying "OMG, no regs" is of no help, whatsoever.

I wonder if the Building Control Officer at the local planning authority would provide some advice to natwill?

natwill_3

it is seven years old, does that mean planning can not enforce a chnage back to a one bed flat?

pigeonpie

all I can say is don't buy out of desperation. I would follow the solicitor's advice or you will have problems esp when you want to sell. Sounds like the solicitor is protecting you, which is what you are paying him/her megabucks for.
Imho the only people who regularly get away with flouting building regs are rich property developers.
Desperation makes you do stupid things and you can't think clearly! (I'm an expert on bad decision-making or )

silvercar

Providing a surveyor has said its safe and provided the change is over 4 years old there is no reason to assume you cannot enjoy the property in the same way the current owner does. Sometimes solicitors get so bogged down in the minutea they don't see the bigger picture. They are also covering themselves.

We have just bought a house where the previous owners had PP for a massive extension. They actually built an extension half the size of the one they had permission for. Our solicitor said we could be forced to "complete" the extension. One phone call to the planning officer who said, "why anyone would be forced to enlarge their extension is beyond him and though theoretically possible he has never heard of it being done in 30 years. In any case you could re-apply for PP for the smaller extension." Then it came to building regs, the owners had a certificate showing what was built was passed - that was all that was needed for our satisfaction. So the layout wasn't to the plans (because of the change in size) but who cares now - no-one. Who will know when we come to sell? No-one, we will have a note of PP being granted and a building regs cert.

natwill_3

Thank you...I must admit the 4 year / 10 year I don't follow.

My solicitor says its ten years...However there is now an indemnity policy put in place by the vendor (who bought flat 4 years ago) and whose solicitors didn't pick this up.

My solictor says he will put this in his report to my lender "Halifax" and the only problem will be if they downgrade the valuation.Ie it was valued as a 2 bed 2 bathroom, but planning only for one bed.

Hopefully not a problem as I am putting down 30% deposit from sale of current flat.

I am buying to keep it a long time, the size, location and garden suit.as does share of freehold.

Also am desperate to move as to extend me current lease will cost 20k in a years time when it becomes an issue.

Can anyone explain the 4 year / 10 year rule?

Alteration done 7 years ago, and I thought if more than 10 years old buildings regs were a moot point?

Thanks alot

Frazzled in London

natwill_3

sounds like cd all be ok?

silvercar

My solicitor told me that you couldn't be asked to undo anything done without planning permission provided 4 years had past without an objection being made.

building regs change all the time and whereas something might have met the regulations at the time of works they may not meet current regs. So if a certificate wasn't obtained at the time you can only obtain a cert now if you meet current regulations.

The two operate independently. Say you build a house at the bottom of your garden with no planning permission, you can still get it inspected and get a building regs cert for it. The opposite is also true, you could get planning permission for an extension but do the work so inadequately that you don't comply with current regs and need to make modifications if you want a building regs cert.

Ideally any development should have both. But say something was done 8 years ago and the owners never got around to applying for building regs, now the regulations change and you can't get a certificate now, so you either make changes, meet current regs and get a cert or you take out an indemnity policy against the new buyers having problems or they live with the fact its not got a certificate.

CFC

Hello again Natwill, it seems to me that you are so desperate to find that it will all be alright if you buy this flat that you're missing the wood for the trees.

Your solicitor is looking out for you. You need to look out for you too.

Another poster wrote about your solicitors concerns about insurance, and that the management by the freehold owners is somewhat inept if there is no adequate insurance. Good point. The point may also be in fact that the roof and foundations have not been inspected by your surveyor and so there may be a whacking great bill for repair at some point in the future to be split by the management company onto the leaseholders, because it sounds as if there is possibly no buildings repair fund. Maybe the solicitor has at the back of his mind - if a lot of stuff in the flats gets done informally and without the relevant permissions, are they also pretty lackadaisical about repairs and other things?

Here's another question - have you spoken to any of the other residents? Do they think that they might have to cough up for serious building work at some point? Are there any issues which they know about and might discuss in a friendly conversation which haven't been raised in a formal management fashion but the inhabitants know about, so it might not come up through the usual legal channels via the vendor's solicitor?

The seller is happy to pay out on indemnities, and would probably paint the place purple if that was the only way you'd buy, because it's difficult to sell!

If after all your solicitor has said to you and the thoughts posted on here, you still go for it because you're going to live there for 20 years, it doesn't matter what problems you have when you come to sell, and you can bite the bullet on big repairs or any other unexpected nasties, then go for it. But do it with your eyes wide open - you're taking a real risk, and if you're happy to take that risk, because you really love the place, then do it.

natwill_3

Thank you for all your help, I am going to think carefully this weekend and may ask for lease plan to be changed

natwill_3

Update...I have pulled out:eek: