PhD support group?

talksalot81

The 'barely want to be there' crowd are a real problem in my view. The teaching revolves around them. Assignments from them take longest to mark and need most correction, lab work they need their hands held, exam times they are the ones asking all the daft questions... the individuals who are top of the class can almost breeze through with no interaction with the staff! This is totally wrong! Uni should be nurturing talent, not holding hands of slackers.

laserboy_2

talksalot81 wrote:

The 'barely want to be there' crowd are a real problem in my view. The teaching revolves around them. Assignments from them take longest to mark and need most correction, lab work they need their hands held, exam times they are the ones asking all the daft questions... the individuals who are top of the class can almost breeze through with no interaction with the staff! This is totally wrong! Uni should be nurturing talent, not holding hands of slackers.

You are quite right.

What I tended to find was that the motivated dtudents got good marks, but would still find the time to talk to you about their work and look for hints and tips. Particularly good at this were the mature students - they made sacrifices to go to Uni and REALLY wanted to do well in order to achieve their goals post-graduation.
The slackers who got low marks, on the other hand, wouldn't even bother reading your comments, let alone find the time to discuss with you. I'm sure most of these weren't really bothered what they "studied" as long as they spent 3 years at Uni; and Chemistry has lower entry grade requirements these days...

hostie

Having been both what you seem to term a 'slacker' and a studious mature student I find your comments quite peculiar. Maybe it is because I haven't done any teaching yet and perhaps my attitude will change when I do but for now I believe that the amazing learning curve that takes place at university for undergraduates is not just about being super prepared for classes. There is so much to be gained from uni - from socialising, trying new things, meeting diverse people, learning life skills etc and I think that learning the juggling act between work, study and fun is part of the learning curve.

It has occurred to me in the past that the really dedicated students put too much pressure on themselves and then have virtual breakdowns later on either during their finals or after uni.

I don't know, maybe my views will change dramatically when I start teaching. Also I am an arts student... As an arts student I think I learnt as much getting drunk with other philosophy students, students in my course etc as I did in some of my lectures... That is not to say I didn't learn from lectures, just that a lot can also be gleamed from interesting friends ...

pboae

Uni is a huge social learning curve, but it isn't the lecturer or tutor's place to babysit them through that. I hated teaching undergraduates for all the same reasons. I shouldn't have to explain to students (who got straight A's at A-level) that they have to actually go to the library and get papers themselves and that it isn't my job to do their photocopying for them. Or that it is not appropriate to answer a mobile phone during a lecture, let alone during an exam. I certainly wouldn't expect every student to be super prepared for classes, but if they can't even be bothered to do the bare minimum (like read something, anything, relevant or hand work in on time, at least most of the time) then why should I make an extra effort for them?

As much as possible I had an open door policy if someone wanted to discuss their work, and I did spend hours going over work with students keen to improve their grades. But why should I give up my (unpaid) lunch hours to give others a crash course in experimental design, because they've just realised they will fail if they don't pass their coursework, but didn't bother to turn up to the weekly timetabled sessions because it started at 9am?

Plus it would always be the students who handed work in late that were demanding it back 24 hours later (If I set a week aside to mark scripts after the deadline, why should I give up another weekend too just to catch up with the stragglers?).

On the other hand, I loved teaching for OU. Academically the students were not as bright as the ones I taught at Uni (a reflection of the courses, and not the quality of students at the two institutions). But the OU students were so enthusiastic. Mature students at Uni were similar, as were some of the younger ones. But the 'barely want to be there' lot hold the others back. I just couldn't hack that.

EDIT: to add, I was also a slacker undergrad, and studious later on. It makes me cringe now to think how I behaved back then and how my tutors must have perceived me.

melancholly

my favourite student has to be the one that emailled me at 8pm on a friday night to ask me something - because they wanted to check something and work on it over the weekend..... some of them just assume that you must drop everything to help them even when they've left it to the last minute!! and i know that the majority of students aren't that bad - it's just that bad ones are so demanding and energy sapping!

Heth_2

Well I'm now in my 3rd year and to be honest I can't imagine having anything near a thesis in a years time, I don't even have a decent plan of what I want/need to do and my model is still not really working. I'm thinking more and more about giving up, I'm so depressed about it, but I just can't motivate myself to do this anymore and I've never really enjoyed it anyway. Just not sure what to do if I do give up.

melancholly

Heth wrote:

Well I'm now in my 3rd year and to be honest I can't imagine having anything near a thesis in a years time, I don't even have a decent plan of what I want/need to do and my model is still not really working. I'm thinking more and more about giving up, I'm so depressed about it, but I just can't motivate myself to do this anymore and I've never really enjoyed it anyway. Just not sure what to do if I do give up.

i'm just starting my third year - when i spoke to my supervisors about all the work i need to do this year, we all decided it was only possible if i gave up weekends and all sleep!! so i'm just going to do as much as is reasonably possible and see where i am in 6 months.

if you're already 2 years in, i more year isn't too much mroe to continue. although there is always an option of writing up now and getting an MPhil......
we all have really bad days (or in my case weeks!) so take a few days off and try and take a step back. your supervisor should be helping you plan for the next year to make sure that you're on track..... and a thesis isn't like a paper - you can discuss dead ends and things that didn't turn out to be too useful, it doesn't have to paint the perfect picture that a paper does (because otherwise i'm in trouble!)

hostie

Hi Heth,
I just wanted to check that you have spoken to someone in your department about how you feel. They might be able to help. It sounds like you can't see things clearly because you are so overwhealmed.
Take care of your wee self and try to talk to someone who might be able to help. Perhaps you could take while out and return to it?

laserboy_2

Heth wrote:

Well I'm now in my 3rd year and to be honest I can't imagine having anything near a thesis in a years time, I don't even have a decent plan of what I want/need to do and my model is still not really working. I'm thinking more and more about giving up, I'm so depressed about it, but I just can't motivate myself to do this anymore and I've never really enjoyed it anyway. Just not sure what to do if I do give up.

Don't give up! I think all PhD students will have been through the "Ohmigod I'm two years in, there is so much I need to do and nothing works" syndrome.

As melancholly suggests, theses can contain details of experiments and avenues that didn't work. True, its harder to write, but is equally valid science as it may prevent some other poor soul trying the same things.

Speak to your supervisor about your concerns. I wish I had spoken to mine more often... He/She may be able to point you down a slightly different, more fruitful line of research. I ended up with three "results" chapters, each of which was a different application of the basic technology; only ne stuck more or less to the original aim of the research.

And remember, the looming deadlines and lack of funding have an unlimited capacity to inspire hard work and inspired experiments. Most of my positive results came in years 3 and 4.

But, please don't give up and please let us know how you get on.

hostie

I just wondered how the other new PhD students were getting on? I have had my first week now and found it quite exciting and motivating. We had talks from successful students and those who mentioned hitting really hard times as none of their experiments worked.
I am just starting and it seems like I have a lot of planning to do... So far I haven't managed to get much work done as I am moving home but hope to get loads done next week.
Hope it is going well for everyone.
hostie