Wooden or Laminate Flooring?...

tawnyowls

Stabilo wrote:

Ok. i'm ready to ask them to drop off the materials 48 hours beforehand but do tradesmen actually EVER do this?

We always did, but at our convenience rather than the customer's. Because of the size of our area (near a fairly large city), it was generally pretty easy to fit it in with a trip to another customer, either for fitting or quoting. Wasn't a huge bother.

Stabilo wrote:

We have a B&Q superstore within a few hundred yards so I think I will pick up some membrane. Can someone expalin how the membrane is fitted with existing skirting board in case the tradesmen don't know how to fit it? Do they just allow a small overhang, fit the quadrants and then trim? How is the membrane fitted to the concrete floor, glue, tape, just sits there?

Hold off till you get the packs in and open them up. If the Uniclic's got the membrane already in them (and I'm almost certain it does), that should be enough.

Membrane just sits on the floor, boards placed on top of it. It has a tendency to roll up, so we used to use a board at either end just to hold it in place until the boards for the actual floor were laid.

Stabilo

tawnyowls wrote:

We always did, but at our convenience rather than the customer's. Because of the size of our area (near a fairly large city), it was generally pretty easy to fit it in with a trip to another customer, either for fitting or quoting. Wasn't a huge bother.



Hold off till you get the packs in and open them up. If the Uniclic's got the membrane already in them (and I'm almost certain it does), that should be enough.

Membrane just sits on the floor, boards placed on top of it. It has a tendency to roll up, so we used to use a board at either end just to hold it in place until the boards for the actual floor were laid.

The laminate is being dropped off by the tradesman 2 days before fitting, at his convenience.
Interestingly another tradesman just rang (too late) to offer his quote, slighlty cheaper than the quote we have accepted. I feel happier now that the job can be done properly for the price we are paying, despite it being £300 cheaper than the first quote we got (top tip: get several quotes for all work). I asked him about stabilising and he said in the wam summer months they don't bother as the depot temperature will be similar to room temperature. They WOULD stabilise in winter months and actually their depot has a 'warm' room to stabilise them for 7 days prior to despatch.

On the membrane are you saying the underlay OR the laminate may have a membrane? Or are you saying the laminate comes with membrane AND underlay?

I will do as you suggest and wait to see what arrives before buying a membrane.

tawnyowls

Stabilo wrote:

I asked him about stabilising and he said in the wam summer months they don't bother as the depot temperature will be similar to room temperature. They WOULD stabilise in winter months and actually their depot has a 'warm' room to stabilise them for 7 days prior to despatch.

Erm, and this isn't winter? Big operation then, if they've got a specific room.

Stabilo wrote:

On the membrane are you saying the underlay OR the laminate may have a membrane? Or are you saying the laminate comes with membrane AND underlay?

Quick-Step usually (or at least it used to, anyway) comes in a package of wood and cardboard, with the boards separated by a thin blue foam sheet that's sort of wrapped around and between them. That foam sheet is the underlay (very little use for sound insulation, but shouldn't matter on a concrete floor), and because it's a polystyrene foam, functions as the damp-proof membrane. It's very thin (onlya couple of mm), but that's sufficient. Other insulation materials you'll see in the shops are much thicker and generally have a metallic backing - they're more often used where the customer requires a higher level of sound insulation, and the metallic backing that's bonded to it is the DPM.

It's worth having a look in the packs anyway - if it's there, well and good, and if not, you'll still be able to nip out and buy some. Interestingly, I've noticed on a couple of websites that it states Quick-Step underlay must be used to comply with the warranty. I've managed to track down the website for you (eventually - I could have sworn they spelt it without a 'c'), and it contains instructions and film clips about installation: http://www.quick-step.com/installing-laminateflooring.aspx?id=1. If you scroll down through the FAQs, you'll find info on why 'underlayment' is necessary.

woodbutcher_2

When i buy uniclic,it comes with dedicated underlay with built in membrane.If you have purchased this then you should be ok.Still not convinced laminate needs to be conditioned myself.Fitted miles of the stuff and never had a single problem.On the other hand,it can't do any harm.

Stabilo

tawnyowls wrote:

Erm, and this isn't winter? Big operation then, if they've got a specific room.



Quick-Step usually (or at least it used to, anyway) comes in a package of wood and cardboard, with the boards separated by a thin blue foam sheet that's sort of wrapped around and between them. That foam sheet is the underlay (very little use for sound insulation, but shouldn't matter on a concrete floor), and because it's a polystyrene foam, functions as the damp-proof membrane. It's very thin (onlya couple of mm), but that's sufficient. Other insulation materials you'll see in the shops are much thicker and generally have a metallic backing - they're more often used where the customer requires a higher level of sound insulation, and the metallic backing that's bonded to it is the DPM.

It's worth having a look in the packs anyway - if it's there, well and good, and if not, you'll still be able to nip out and buy some. Interestingly, I've noticed on a couple of websites that it states Quick-Step underlay must be used to comply with the warranty. I've managed to track down the website for you (eventually - I could have sworn they spelt it without a 'c'), and it contains instructions and film clips about installation: http://www.quick-step.com/installing-laminateflooring.aspx?id=1. If you scroll down through the FAQs, you'll find info on why 'underlayment' is necessary.

I misled you a little on the summer / winter & warm room. These were the comments from the guy that ISN'T doing the job (quoted too late).

I watched all the videos about a week ago, I even carry them around on my Pocket PC. How sad is that! I don't think Quick Step mention stabilising, perhaps because it might put people off or because they believe their unique design doesn't warrant it.
Don't have too much respect for guarantees. If I ring the tradesman in 19 years and say 'a bit of the floor has warped, please fix it under the 20 year guarantee' do you think he'll say 'I'll be 'round within the hour to fix it, sir'.
I am not having a go at tradesmen as such. If someone asked me to correct work from almost 20 years ago I wouldn't be very forthcoming either.

I will study the underlay / membrane closely.

bootman

Last house had real oak laid. You couldn't drop anything as it dented. You could not spill anything either as it marked. I think if its a room for best then OK.

Stabilo

bootman wrote:

Last house had real oak laid. You couldn't drop anything as it dented. You could not spill anything either as it marked. I think if its a room for best then OK.

I guess real wood looks generally better but is laminate better or worse than real wood for not denting or marking?

tawnyowls

Stabilo wrote:

I guess real wood looks generally better but is laminate better or worse than real wood for not denting or marking?

Definitely looks better - as I mentioned in an earlier thread, laminate just can't compete with the look; it just doesn't have the variations you find in natural wood.

As for wearing, depends on the grade. A high-grade laminate will wear better than a low-grade wood. Laminate also tends to put up with actual abuse better (stiletto heels, rotten little brats smashing their cars down on it, that sort of thing), but once it does start to wear, it looks awful, whereas wood just looks attractively aged. If there's a decent wear layer on the boards, wood can be sanded down and revitalised, whereas laminate can't.

Stabilo

The fitters delivered the laminate & underlay today.

Younger fitter said why are you having it delivered today, wife said because husband insisted it has time to stabilise, older fitter said your husband is right.

Good news is the underlay does include membrane. Bad news is that it is the real cheap stuff (Lami-mate at £30 for 25 sq meters).

More bad news, we were quoted 8mm single plank and we have received cheap 7mm double plank. We will be speaking with the tradesman tomorrow.

roswell

we used engineered wood and green fiber insulation boards on our lounge, we dont ahve a cold floor and its not noissy we live in a flat and althuogh tempted by the paper thin underlays the fiber boards were £20 for 20 M2 these are worth there weight in gold in my books the room is never cold (concrete base) and just shows that its more important to fit a good underlay than expensive flooring.