Cats bringing in Mice + Birds HELP!!

Equaliser123

KxMx wrote: »

I always keep Lily in this time of year when I know the majority of birds are nesting, and will only let her out when I think the main lot of chicks are independant.

Her new collar has a bell which is housed in a cermaic ball so it's quite loud. Her last collar I went to the craft shop and put another on!

Good for you. I really wish other cat owners were as responsible and respectful to our diminishing wildlife.

*onlyme*

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Your comment that even if a bird grows to adulthood it is not guaranteed to have a swift painless death is bizarre! If nature (e.g. sparrowhawk or other predator, weather, etc) takes it, then that is just part of the cycle.

Cats are not part of the cycle.

So what about cars, lorries etc that kill many birds and other wildlife...they are not part of the cycle either....

Equaliser123

*onlyme* wrote: »

So what about cars, lorries etc that kill many birds and other wildlife...they are not part of the cycle either....

Didn't say that they were. But this is a thread about cats isn't it??

Caffca

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Cats are not part of the cycle.

:rotfl::rotfl:

Er where do you think cats come from? The egyptians started domesticating wild cats about 4000BC - which means cats - wild cats were around long before this - about 5 million years I believe.

Cats are recorded as far back in the UK as 30BC brought across by the romans mainly although we did have wild cats on the mainland already - see the scottish wild cat for example.

Equaliser123

Caffca wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl:

Er where do you think cats come from? The egyptians started domesticating wild cats about 4000BC - which means cats - wild cats were around long before this - about 5 million years I believe.

Cats are recorded as far back in the UK as 30BC brought across by the romans mainly although we did have wild cats on the mainland already - see the scottish wild cat for example.

Junk. Cats are not part of the British wildlife. Your argument that "cats are nature" makes me conclude that cat owners like you are irresponsible.

When was the last time you saw a lynx in your garden? Or any non-pet cat? Or a lion? Tiger? Cheetah? This is Britain. Cats that kill birds are not in the ecosystem in this country.

Check your facts before posting, eh? Thought it was all pretty obvious.

Caffca

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Junk. Cats are not part of the British wildlife. Your argument that "cats are nature" makes me conclude that cat owners like you are irresponsible.

When was the last time you saw a lynx in your garden? Or any non-pet cat? Or a lion? Tiger? Cheetah? This is Britain. Cats that kill birds are not in the ecosystem in this country.

Check your facts before posting, eh? Thought it was all pretty obvious.

I'll openly admit I am going to post and run because I have other things to do but let me see - you want some research:

25-65 million years ago - Miacids evolved - long tail for balance; strong claws for climbing and teeth specifically developed for eating meat - an early mammal and forbear of all modern carnivores, dogs; bears; seals and oops yes cats!

25 million years ago - Proailurus (literally means first cat) - more specialised teeth; retractable claws; superb climber; great balance; always lands on it feet (sound familiar?)

10 million years ago - Felis Lunensis - evolved from proailurus, large and small cats, spread across Europe, Africa, Asia, Americas by land bridge, constantly evolving for the terrain they were in. The first wild cat, it's bones have been found across Europe including (see that including) Britain which would have been part of the mainland shelf at the time. So wild cats in Britain 10 million years ago - wow, who'd a thought it.

2 million years ago - Felis Silvestris - the European wild cat - a superpredator and rapidly spread all across europe

20,000 years ago - last glaciation - wild cats driven south and further into the continent, away from "britain"

9-10,000 years ago - ice begins to recede, vegetation and animals start heading north again and back into britain again with stone age man. rising sea levels create the english channel and isolate the wild cats from their counterparts on the continent.

2000 years ago - roman invasion - introduce domestic cats who thrive while wild cats including the British Lynx (what a lynx in Britain - they aren't native surely not?!!!) numbers decline. Ummm - wonder what the roman introduced domestic cats evolved from - that wouldn't be the european wild cat that was around 10 million years ago so they've effectively come home, would it!

Christ how many millions of years do you have to live in Britain to be classed as "native" and part of the cycle of life?

Of course cats that kill birds are part of the eco-system - they are here, deal with it. They may not be the "big cats" you feel are british natives but they have evolved from the same gene pool, one that dates back in britain over 10 million years.

And I've never seen a wolf, bear, fox or deer in my back garden does that mean they are not native to britain then?

Equaliser123

Cats are not part of British wildlife. End of. Your "research" doesn't show that they are part of the wildlife and hence, natural ecosystem, at all.

The cats that kill birds in enormous numbers are pets. Not wildlife.

It's really odd. ALL cat owners that I have encountered share similar characteristics. An inability to understand that their pets cause huge amounts of damage together with this really odd trait of humanising their animals.

Caffca

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Cats are not part of British wildlife. End of.

You are being rather blinkered in your view of wildlife and nature in my opinion.

Cats that kill birds are part of the British wildlife - have you not heard of feral cats? I can assure you these do kill birds / small mammals etc. Some may have evolved from domesticated cats, some from true wild cats and various mixes inbetween but they are part of the country's wildlife, they are not owned by anyone.

Yes, pet cats (to keep your distinction going) do kill "wildlife" but that is because it is their nature, the very nature that was the reason we domesticated them in the first place, to protect grain stores etc. So you are "punishing" pet/domesticated cats for following the instincts that caused us to take them from the wild and bring them into our homes in the first place - to kill the wildlife that threatened our crops/homes etc. You can't have it all ways.

It is recognised that cats can't be trained and controlled in the same way as dogs for example - hence why the government didn't have cat licences going when they used to insist on dog licences, why drivers didn't have to report hitting cats etc.

I am offended by your assumption that I anthromorphosise my cats (or any other of my pets for that matter) and that I am blind/ignorant to the fact that I have a "killer" living in my home. I know what cats can do but there is nothing to be done to stop it. Keeping them locked in, is not a solution.

I think we shall just have to agree to disagree on this one!

Equaliser123

Caffca wrote: »

You are being rather blinkered in your view of wildlife and nature in my opinion.

Cats that kill birds are part of the British wildlife - have you not heard of feral cats? I can assure you these do kill birds / small mammals etc. Some may have evolved from domesticated cats, some from true wild cats and various mixes inbetween but they are part of the country's wildlife, they are not owned by anyone.

Yes, pet cats (to keep your distinction going) do kill "wildlife" but that is because it is their nature, the very nature that was the reason we domesticated them in the first place, to protect grain stores etc. So you are "punishing" pet/domesticated cats for following the instincts that caused us to take them from the wild and bring them into our homes in the first place - to kill the wildlife that threatened our crops/homes etc. You can't have it all ways.

It is recognised that cats can't be trained and controlled in the same way as dogs for example - hence why the government didn't have cat licences going when they used to insist on dog licences, why drivers didn't have to report hitting cats etc.

I am offended by your assumption that I anthromorphosise my cats (or any other of my pets for that matter) and that I am blind/ignorant to the fact that I have a "killer" living in my home. I know what cats can do but there is nothing to be done to stop it. Keeping them locked in, is not a solution.

I think we shall just have to agree to disagree on this one!

What proportion of cats out there are feral compared to domesticated? Tiny.

I'm not "punishing" the cats - although those that enter my garden get bricks chucked at them - but the owners who make no effort to mitigate the problem like putting a simple bell around their necks.

I didn't make any assumption about you - just every cat owner who I have ever met. Stop being so sensitive.

Hate the germy, cruel, skanky animals. Hate even more when owners say "cats are so clean - they are always licking themselves...."

summerday

Personally I have no issue with feral cats killing birds, mice etc if they kill to eat and survive. That is nature and any creature is entitled to survival. However, I hate to see pet cats just slowly tormenting and killing birds as part of a game- this is unnecessary and causes prolonged suffering, as it's just bored pet cats wanting fun rather than a quick kill followed by eating.

IMHO, all pet cats should have to wear bells on collars to at least try to prevent so many poor birds being needlessly killed. No, I'm sure it won't prevent every single death, but even some is better than none being saved.

In case anyone is wondering, yes I also hate human bloodsports.