Lib Dems & Tories... Can they work together?

Entertainer

Btw, Clegg doesn't need the support of his membership to cut a deal. He only needs 75% support from his MPs and national executive. So the Lib Dem party members can whistle for it:D.

Soubrette

bristol_pilot wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that PR is 'fair' - it delivers the greatest amount of power to the party that gets the fewest votes. And the prospect of the BNP getting into parliament, btw.

FPTP will offer the same quandries in the future I think - too many people are disenfranchised from the main parties and more and more people are willing to 'waste' their vote for whatever reason.

Sou

silvercar

bristol_pilot wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that PR is 'fair' - it delivers the greatest amount of power to the party that gets the fewest votes. And the prospect of the BNP getting into parliament, btw.

I agree.

People were reluctant to vote LIbDem this time because they saw it as a vote for PR. Vot LibDem now, get PR which leaves the LibDems controlling power for a very long time. If the LibDems want to know the country's view on PR, this election was it, and the answer is no.

PhylPho

Entertainer wrote: »

The big danger for you Liberals is that this could be as good as it gets.
>
However, you will get a referendum on PR in six months and an actual chance to change the system (referendums for constitutional change are good- you only have to win them once.) You could think of it as a free go. Although you might lose- the people might not like you gerrymandering democracy like that. Decisions, decisions.:D

Now I'm getting even more confused than usual on here: it took me a moment to realise that your post, Entertainer, didn't relate to mine but was a response to another post that -- I, er, think -- was a response to another one. Possibly.

Anyway. I know the traditional Lib has been traditionally Left and so a marriage of the like-minded is to be expected in ordinary circumstances.

But as you and everyone on here knows, these aren't ordinary circumstances. Nor, does it seem, are there ordinary politics: Nick Clegg chose to emphasise the outcome of the democratic process, not lament the defeat of another party of (arguably) kindred spirit.

As it's impossible, and unreasonable, to set politics aside from a thread such as this -- seeing as how politics has played so significant a role in the current economic mess -- it's nevertheless going to be the case that every MSEr has his / her own view. Regardless of whatever political flag they might currently salute.

Which means: I think your point was well-made. I also think any LibDem voter who believes the party should now stand aside and let a Tory minority government get on with it may have a good idea of how UK politics works but little if any idea of how global economics operates.

I admired Nick Clegg the other day for putting honesty before politics. I'll admire him even more if his next step is to put national interest above party interest. There's unlikely to be a short-term dividend for the LibDems. But there will be for the country -- and in the longer term, the LibDems will benefit from that, too.

*PS: just to recap: a coalition with Labour and a bunch of nationalist parties would not only make a nonsense of the May 6th election. It would also be utter lunacy.

Soubrette

silvercar wrote: »

I agree.

People were reluctant to vote LIbDem this time because they saw it as a vote for PR. Vot LibDem now, get PR which leaves the LibDems controlling power for a very long time. If the LibDems want to know the country's view on PR, this election was it, and the answer is no.

There is little evidence for that - the LibDems have always polled about 25% of the votes and that changed little - they actually gained 1% compared to the 2005 election.

It seems around 75% of voters are always reluctant to vote LibDem

It is equally as plausible to assume that people did not vote LibDem precisely because there is no PR.

We'll never know until or if PR does get in but I suspect that even if it doesn't, hung parliaments will become a feature of the political landscape for the medium term.

Sou

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

PhylPho wrote: »

*PS: just to recap: a coalition with Labour and a bunch of nationalist parties would not only make a nonsense of the May 6th election. It would also be utter lunacy.

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

All three parties lost the election.

Let me be clear about that, in case you have a hard time understanding such a simple concept.

The electorate were convinced that Labour should not be re-elected. The electorate were also clear that they did not want a Tory government.

After that, all bets are off.

Both socially and economically, the Tories are centre right. The Lib Dems and Labour are centre left.

If you look at the total votes, around one third of voters want a centre right government. Around two thirds want a centre left government.

The Tories and the Liberals are both far more libertarian than authoritarian. Labour is more authoritarian than libertarian.

So two thirds of voters also want a more libertarian than authoritarian government moving forwards.

But if I had to bet on voter priorities, social and economic policy would trump civil liberty concerns.....

A tory/Lib pact would be doomed to disaster within a year.

A Lab/Lib pact may just survive a full term.

A minority government wouldn't last 6 months.

Interesting times.....

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

And for what it's worth, I think Clegg will do a deal with the Tories, or try to.

But Clegg then has to get it approved by his party, or it won't go anywhere.

The problem is, Clegg is to the very right of his party, and Cameron to the very left of his party.

They just might be able to find common ground. But I really doubt they'll be able to bring their parties along with them.

Whereas the party base of Labour and Lib Dems would be able to support a centre left alliance, I think. But the leaderships can't get along.

I rather think another election is inevitable in the not too distant future.

Kohoutek

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

And for what it's worth, I think Clegg will do a deal with the Tories, or try to.

I think so too. People forget that Clegg is a politician, not a saint. Ronald Reagan said it best:

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."

DelBoyPhil

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2010/may/07/nick-clegg-david-cameron

Interesting....

globalds

I think the Tories are working themselves up to forming a minority government.

The old guard will be convinced it would be easier without any baggage.