Can we not have a tv licence?

moonrakerz

esuhl wrote: »

Oh, blimey. Here we go again.

Correct - but I am afraid you are muddying the waters by your later statement

esuhl wrote: »

TV Licensing have no automatic right to enter your property. The only way anyone can enter your property is with a warrant to search the place. And the only way they can get a warrant is by getting magistrate to issue the warrant by court order. Evidence must be submitted to support the warrant before it is issued. Therefore an innocent person is fairly unlikely to be served with a search warrant.

What will be achieved by issuing a "search" warrant ? You have to be found to be "watching or recording live television without a licence" to be committing an offence. NOT being in possession of a TV, even a warm TV !
TVL and the police enter your house with a warrant and there you are watching last night's "Eastenders" that your neighbour recorded for you - you are NOT acting illegally ! There is NOTHING they can do. There may be copyright questions but that isn't within TVL's remit.

My gripe against TVL is the way they treat people who don't have a licence because the LAW says they don't need one (like me !). Anyone who is watching illegally deserves to get "done".
The problem is, that by giving advice to those being incorrectly persecuted by TVL then "dodgers" can evade paying what they should be paying and are sponging off the rest of the population.

The licence is outmoded and needs to be replaced. I think the BBC is well worth keeping, perhaps in a slimmed down form - from general taxation perhaps ?

esuhl

moonrakerz wrote: »

Correct - but I am afraid you are muddying the waters by your later statement

Sorry if it came across as a bit unclear. What I meant was that you do not have to let anyone from TV Licensing (TVL) into your house... with the theoretical exception being if they (or would it be the police..?) have a warrant.

As you say (and I was trying to imply), there wouldn't be much point in this since some kind of evidence would be required to get a warrant and a search of the premises would be extremely likely to be inconclusive. So, while there's legally a theoretical chance of a warrant being issued, in practice it almost certainly wouldn't happen.

moonrakerz wrote: »

The problem is, that by giving advice to those being incorrectly persecuted by TVL then "dodgers" can evade paying what they should be paying and are sponging off the rest of the population...
The licence is outmoded and needs to be replaced. I think the BBC is well worth keeping, perhaps in a slimmed down form - from general taxation perhaps ?

Well, I can't see the point of an unenforcable law. The rich have always had accountants who explain the intricacies of financial law. This enables them to find loop-holes or otherwise find ways to break the law without being detected, while the less well-off don't have this knowledge.

If the law is unenforcable, it is unjust because many people will act illegally, thus unfairly increasing the burden for those who are law-abiding.

The BBC is definitely worth keeping - they have some amazing documentaries and educational programs that would not be cost-effective if we only had commercial channels. I think your idea of a more general tax paid by all is a good one.

crazygaijin

So someone could just watch TV without a licence and every time they call to ask to come in to check the householder can refuse?

b33r

crazygaijin wrote: »

So someone could just watch TV without a licence and every time they call to ask to come in to check the householder can refuse?

In theory yes, you would however be breaking the law.

There is always the chance they find a flexible judge who grants them a warrant to come back with the police but the chances of that are slim.

The licence fee system certainly needs a refresh of how it is ran but if you use the service then you should pay for it and not break the law.

robberbutton

We haven't had a TV licence for 4 years. We sent an original letter, and then again when we moved house. It does take a while to convince them (a couple of letters, maybe a phone call), but it wasn't too much hassle. We've never had a visit - although I wouldn't have minded letting them in if they did call.

(Can't they check whether you a receiving a signal from outside the house?)

before_hollywood

crazygaijin wrote: »

So someone could just watch TV without a licence and every time they call to ask to come in to check the householder can refuse?

with reasonable suspicion tvl can obtain a warrant, with a warrant and a police officer present they have to be let in.

purchase of a tv triggers the enforcement literature, i would recommend purchase of a computer monitor :cool:

jimbms

They tend to come here once or twice a year, everybody knows when they get on the boat at Heysham and makes sure they go out for the 5 nights they are here, we don't get a full service from the BBC both radio and TV and a lot of the online stuff is blocked to Manx ip addresses so the general feeling is we don't pay them.