Community Service......help please!

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

If he's drunk all the time, then let him get into trouble for it - stop making it easier for him!

far2812

that could be one option Jojo but really it doesn't help anyone in the end. If that solution worked and people went to jail, paid their punishment and released a new person - this country would be lovely!!!!!!!!!!!

Just by getting him to do a few hours community service isn't going to resolve the root cause hence our decision re rehab!

Rockporkchop

It would be fantastic if his parents paid for rehab and he finished the whole course and emerged a reformed character. But if he is still drunk all the time, his parents will be wasting their time and money. He has got to want to stop drinking and help himself and it doesn't sound like he does. If he really wanted to stop drinking and turn over a new leaf then he would be doing his utmost to complete the community service and stop drinking.

I think it is kind of you and his parents to try to help him but by babying him and rallying around trying to sort out rehab for him, you are enabling his behaviour. You all need to back off and let him reach rock bottom by himself. Only then will he be in a position to try to change his life.

Janepig

far2812 wrote: »

On the note of the probation - most of ye were right - I rang his Probation officer and as he had been in touch with her (although drunk) - she said she was prepared to take it back to the Court with the evidence of his residential rehab and ask them to revoke the order.

Don't forget that he will be given something instead, not just have his slate wiped clean. It's a revoke and re-sentence. They could give him supervision, or a hefty fine, etc.... Depends on the view the bench or district judge on the day take of it. I'm still amazed that he got unpaid work for a no insurance offence - in 9 years I can't ever say I've known that happen. So if he's got some form then that's going to have an impact on whatever they will give him instead of the unpaid work.

Jxx

far2812

That's interesting Janepig - what sentence would you have thought he would have got?

I didn't know they would replace it with something else (I did wonder why they would just write it off!)

Thanks for the advice

Janepig

far2812 wrote: »

That's interesting Janepig - what sentence would you have thought he would have got?

I didn't know they would replace it with something else (I did wonder why they would just write it off!)

Thanks for the advice

Well in response to this question I decided to look the sentencing guidelines up (link) and I think someone may have been less than truthful with you - the reason I couldn't recall having seen anyone having had unpaid work for a bog standard no insurance offence, is because it doesn't cross into the community order band - the maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. So he's seemingly done something else to get him the unpaid work.

Anyway, that being so, if the case does get returned to Court for a revocation for ill health, then depending on the original offence and the view the bench or district judge take of the situation, then he may get a fine, which is usually quite high because we all get a bit miffed with people who get sentenced a certain way and then all of a sudden "can't do it". Or he might get some Probation Supervision if the service feels it can assist him with his problems, or he may get a tagged curfew for a certain period of time.

Jxx

Happy_Girl_2

As he is under a court order, he cannot just up and go into private rehab. If he does, he will be classed as absent and returned to court for breach of the order. The court will then make the sentence more onerous, and in some cases will send him to custody

I would suggests he ask to see his Probation Officer and explain to them what is happening. Probation Officers are not just there to make sure you work, they are there to support too. They may suggest taking the case back to court and asking the court to revoke the current order, and resentence to include full support with coming off the alcohol. What tends to happen then is the alcohol misuse team will make recommendations as to the best way forward, which may involve a period of rehab, then regular meetings with the alcohol misuse team who will test to ensure he is still alcohol free, and provide support in staying that way

The unpaid work element of the order will likely continue, and the unpaid work team will work with the alcohol team to get him the support he needs whilst making sure he completes his unpaid work

Ring the Probation Officer and ask for an appointment to meet and discuss. Be honest, and you will get all the support you need

Can I ask what are you are in?

far2812

Hi Happy girl - we are in Nottingham. I did ring the probation officer and she was quite sympathetic really. She said that they would write to the Dr or the rehab centre itself - and ask for proof that he is resident - they will then write to John with a letter to sign and her words were that she " will ask the Court to revoke the sentence".

That would be great if he does get help when he gets out - he is due to go to the rehab this morning and as far as I know so far - he has gone to get his hair cut (that doesn't ring true to me and just hope that he has changed his mind and gone off drinking!)

I am feeling all sorts of emotions today - it's very stressful and sad.

sunnyone

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

I must admit, my more cynical head comes into play here - getting up in the morning and working is such much more unpleasant than wailing 'but I've realised I'm ill! Don't make me do this nasty work anymore!', normally meaning 'I want to go home and drink my Tennants as usual uninterrupted by nasty community service'. As far as I remember from my driving licence application, he shouldn't have even been in a car with alcoholism, so he wouldn't have been covered by any insurance on earth at that point, whether he be stone cold sober or not.

But you know much more than me, it's a while since I worked for Probation or Mental Health Services, so I'm a bit out of the loop here.

I still think it's his problem to sort out, not the OP's or his parents, and if he ends up in bigger trouble because he doesn't want to do it and medical evidence cannot be produced proving he is unfit to do it, that's his lookout, not theirs.

My dad was an alcholic and he drove lorries all his working life alongside his car until he was banned for drink driving (morning after not drinking then getting straight into the car, not an excuse but an explaination) and he never had any licence problems even though his GP knew about his alcholism as did his employers.

Drying out isnt the right thing for this man yet, not if hes always drunk and even if it were it dosnt work for many people because they need to have something to replace the time drunk/drinking/passed out.

Have you and his parents seen a family councillor yet? It really helped us to understand my dad and the reasons he drank.

Watching the sudden death of an acholic is the worse thing Ive ever seen, I was expecting a long drawn out death as his body gradually shut down but it was over in 4 hours and it was horrific, I hope that you are spared that OP.

Happy_Girl_2

far2812 wrote: »

Hi Happy girl - we are in Nottingham. I did ring the probation officer and she was quite sympathetic really. She said that they would write to the Dr or the rehab centre itself - and ask for proof that he is resident - they will then write to John with a letter to sign and her words were that she " will ask the Court to revoke the sentence".

That would be great if he does get help when he gets out - he is due to go to the rehab this morning and as far as I know so far - he has gone to get his hair cut (that doesn't ring true to me and just hope that he has changed his mind and gone off drinking!)

I am feeling all sorts of emotions today - it's very stressful and sad.

What will happen is that once he has signed the form to allow her to access his medical info, she will contact the Doctor for professional advice about his condition. Then she will write a report for the court recommending the rehab support and it will be up to the Court as to whether they approve it

The Court don't always act on the Pos report, so be prepared for that. Other options may include a curfew daily/weekly for a period of time to be decided by the court. I have seen curgews issued for 3 months daily 7pm to 7am for example. They could add even more upw hours which wouldn't make any sense but there you go, or they could recommend the alcohol support/supervision. The last resort would be custody, but tbh this is more likely if he currently has a Suspended Sentence rather than a Community Order

The PO will do whatever they can to support you, but Judges and Magistrates will make their own minds up re sentencing. It is subjective and can vary from region to region within the guidelines as different people can interpret them in different ways

Please do come back and update after the court hearing