Don't breed your dog unless you have £1200 spare

foreign_correspondent

Kimberley wrote: »

One thing that worries me about this being in the media is that other irresponsible people who breeds from their pet dog/cat will not risk taking their dog to the Vet and just hope for the best.

You can't stop people being cruel, but you can stop them being uninformed... maybe a few people may reconsider breeding if they realise that it can be an expensive business... and the risk it carries to the b1tch...

jackieglasgow

Oh my goodness. I also have a Staffie called Coco, so as you can imagine this really upset me. Why did these idiots breed the dog with no money to pay for treatment, although you wonder why the vet had to call the police, she must be a right stoater!!! I suppose it saves the wee souls an unpleasant life, and at least one of them a trip to the pound, and being PTS because they were unable to be rehomed. My wee dog was an unwanted Staffie, who we've recently discovered the breeder refused to take back from the person from whom my husband rescued her. Another BackYard Breeder, that poor wee dog, never mind whether she should have been PTS, ore treated for free, or if they should have had the money put by. She must have been in agony, terrified, overwhelmed - as a human who needed a C-Section, and knew what it was for, and had all the aasociated meds, I can't even begin to imagine what she was going through, as least her suffering is over.

hethmar

fc is right about the collies - I think they are also one of the most common that come into the pounds. Have a look at sites like Wiccaweys

rescue.
http://www.wiccaweys.co.uk/start.html

Rev

God this is absolutely horrific. In all honesty I couldn't give a crap about the owner or the vet and who's to blame, but my heart broke for the poor dog.

This is why I never bred from any of my dogs, well, one of the reasons. The other being I have very little knowledge of breeding so I'd be damn stupid to try it. I have been asked quite a few times when walking my dog by people who are clearly back yard breeders looking to make some cash if I'd let him mate with their b!tch, as payment I'd have pick of the litter. Each time I've told them to take a hike, and for the sake of their dog, get it spayed asap.

sarabe

cinderellacomplex wrote: »

That's so sad

I will hopefully be having a litter from my current border collie when she is older. She's only one now but I have already have a conversation with my vet about it and they were very helpful. I knew about all of the health tests which she is now getting done, but the vets can also give you advice on things like the build of dog to choose to lower the risk of needing a C-section. I know that there is still a chance that she will need one, but I would never ever get her put down if she did. Even if by a twist of fate my bank accounts had been completely wiped I would try and negotiate a payment plan and cut back in other areas, turn my phone off and eat baked beans for while!

Please think very long and hard about this. I have a housefull of Border Collies that even the rescues wouldn't take.

There are way too many dogs being bred and Border Collies are second only to Staffy types in number in rescue.

It breaks my heart to think of them all. A lot of people that take on a Border Collie pup, even those with the very best of intentions will find that they can no longer cope with them often before they are 6 months old. The most common age for them to find themselves homeless is four months.

cinderellacomplex

ali-t wrote: »

I don't think your vet is the person you should be having the conversation with, it should be the breeder of your dog who will know the pedigree inside out and any of the elements that need taken into consideration when finding a suitable stud. I don't know much about collies but, for example, if your dog has a particular feature (bite, straight back, tail carriage) you may need to find a dog that complements this so certain features don't become too strong, exagerated or recessive.

You should be looking back generations of your !!!!! and any potential stud to look for any genetic quirks and behaviours e.g. are you breeding to produce a working dog or one more suited to a pet lifestyle.

My own view is that litters should be bred for the good of the breed rather than just because the dog is 'nice', has been health tested, loads of people have said they want a pup or worse 'the vet said she is healthy'.

This isn't meant as a dig at you but as a pointer that there is more to think about than birth complications.

A good breeder will take back any pups they have bred at any point in their lifetime and if you have chosen a stud on the basis of colouring/size etc rather than temprament, and suitability with your !!!!! you could be heading for a stressfull and expensive life with vet and behaviourist bills.

If you do decide to breed from your !!!!!, IMO you would be better to find a mentor in the breed to support you rather than taking advice solely from a vet.

Don't stress, I know all of this I was talking to my vet about the health aspects, that is what this topic was about after all, but I see that you cannot mention breeding without being instantly judged as inept! There is also no way that I would choose a stud dog based on colouring, any colours which they carry are the icing on the cake and not my primary concern. Temperament and working ability are what I am most concerned with, it is among those dogs that I need to look for one with the right build, and travel further for him if necessary.

I also know my !!!!!'s lines inside out, could recite them backwards when standing on my head lol. Trust me when I say that I know what I need to look for. I won't be breeding show dogs and I won't be breeding 'pets' unless the prospective owners know that they will need to do something like agility or I know beyond doubt that they can handle a border collie. I know that as their breeder I should take them back at any point in their life if their owners cannot keep them, in fact I intend to have a contractual clause to that effect because I do not wish to see my pups being dumped in rescues or passed along to idiots who I wouldn't choose in a million years.

As for why I am breeding my !!!!!, I don't feel like I have to defend that here obviously. However, so far in her life in terms of her temperament and working drive she is the perfect border collie. We will see how that develops in the next year or so and whether or not she does well on the health testing

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Some dogs may be at lower risk of needing a c section, but complications can be varied and unpredictable - please read the post by ali-t above - if you are thinking of breeding her this should only because she has something exceptional to add to the gene pool

Plenty of border collies end up in rescue, many of them are neurotic and psychologically stressed/damaged because people take them on expecting them to be easy to train... but underestimate the amount of exercise and stimulation they need. They are not an ideal breed for most pet homes, and good homes are hard to find for collies. Look at all the collies here - most are young, and so many have been goven up because the owner didnt have time to give them what they needed... http://www.dogsblog.com/category/border-collie/

I know that plenty of border collies end up in rescues, but I would disagree that good homes are hard to find, you just need to be willing to put in the extra effort to find out which ones are good and which ones aren't.

Btw if it wasn't a bad time for me then I would take Barney in seconds, he's lovely. It doesn't mean that you should blanket ban breeding though, or use links like that to make responsible breeders feel guilty..

cinderellacomplex

sarabe wrote: »

Please think very long and hard about this. I have a housefull of Border Collies that even the rescues wouldn't take.

There are way too many dogs being bred and Border Collies are second only to Staffy types in number in rescue.

It breaks my heart to think of them all. A lot of people that take on a Border Collie pup, even those with the very best of intentions will find that they can no longer cope with them often before they are 6 months old. The most common age for them to find themselves homeless is four months.

I know, and I would never have considered breeding her if she hadn't turned out so exceptionally well. As it is I haven't decided yet and there is time yet before I will make a final decision. She's one now and I don't expect to breed her until she is around 3, if I do at all. Assuming that she only has one litter and even that everything goes well there is a high chance that whatever pup I keep from the litter will cost me considerably more than buying a pup in from somewhere, so it it definitely not something that I will do on a whim.

I have said it many times and it may sound cruel, but just because there are a lot of border collies in rescues does not mean that you shouldn't breed a dog when they are worth breeding from.

ali-t

Glad to hear it cindarellacomplex. You might be fully informed but I always try to think about others who may be reading the thread months or years later. your post is a good example of someone responsible who is thinking things through.

chucknorris

cinderellacomplex wrote: »

I know that plenty of border collies end up in rescues, but I would disagree that good homes are hard to find, you just need to be willing to put in the extra effort to find out which ones are good and which ones aren't.

..

But why breed more? If you want the satisfaction of placing dogs in good homes then why not put in that 'extra effort' you talk about to match up dogs that are already in shelters to those good homes that you say you can find. Then you would be placing a dog in a good home that is already in a shleter.

cinderellacomplex

chucknorris wrote: »

But why breed more? If you want the satisfaction of placing dogs in good homes then why not put in that 'extra effort' you talk about to match up dogs that are already in shelters to those good homes that you say you can find. Then you would be placing a dog in a good home that is already in a shleter.

I can't take responsibility for every unwanted border collie out there. I can and will take responsibility for ever one that I breed. Unfortunately a lot of the dogs in shelters weren't bred for the reasons I would breed for, and their parents weren't health tested as well as they should have been etc. If everyone who bred for my reasons just stopped then all you would be left with are border collies that were bred for the wrong reasons. They might all find homes easier, but it wouldn't do anything for the breed.

It is my belief that instead of people/charities/vets arguing with the people who choose to breed responsibly, they should spend their time and energy promoting responsible breeding and health testing etc. Make people aware of the common health problems in a breed and what that can mean for a litter of pups. Explain things like how much a c-section could cost and how much raising even a healthy litter costs. Maybe you'll put some people off. People who are buying puppies too should be warned about this and told what tests the parents should have had. I doubt that the problem will ever go away entirely, and to be fair some (apparently 'responsible') breeders are having far too many litters these days too - I could name two border collie breeders who I think had way too many in the last 12 months.. but surely it is a better approach than trying to guilt/shame/judge the people that are approaching breeding with the right attitude.