The Palm Pre

Hammer_Slammer

Interesting read http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/238539-disillusioned-my-palm-pre.html

almillar

If people had listened to gjchester in the 1990s Apple would have died because of the uncertainty around them. There's a huge dedicated community around WebOS, and even if the absolute worst happens (which I guess would be Apple or similar buying them to get the patents, remove competition) your phone will not just switch off. You'll still have all those apps etc. For goodness sake, even PalmOS is still going!
O2 are launching the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus in Germany, and it would seem that they'll do the same in the UK - leaving out only the original Pixi. I find the idea of a smartphone without WiFi hard to swallow, and I imagine so did O2.
There aresome people who really like the iPhone and the way it works and have done their research, great, then there are the fashion accessory types who just buy them for everyone else to see. That's a big market and Apple have done.
There are currently 6 EA games in the App store, I just checked on my phone. O2 gave away 3 of these, great!

gjchester

almillar wrote: »

If people had listened to gjchester in the 1990s Apple would have died because of the uncertainty around them. There's a huge dedicated community around WebOS, and even if the absolute worst happens (which I guess would be Apple or similar buying them to get the patents, remove competition) your phone will not just switch off. You'll still have all those apps etc. For goodness sake, even PalmOS is still going!

Interesting comparison. Apple made the Newton, which lost ground to Palm's Pilot, and Apple is rumoured to have only really avoided bankrupcy by Microsoft investing $150 Million in Apple. ( http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/08/dayintech_0806/)

However your missing my point.

Why would anyone buy a phone, on a minimum 18 months contract (and more likely two years), when the company that sits behind it is not stable, and instead rely on a fan community for support?

It's no different to how people who avoided Rover at the end. There was nothing wrong with the cars, just no-one knew what would be behind them in the future and what support would be there, so they just didn't sell.

almillar

Looks stable enough to me :-)
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/22/palm-ceo-still-thinks-company-can-go-it-alone-open-to-webos-lic/
My point is that support for any current devices will not vanish within 18 months, and any sale will be as a going concern. Rover just died, Palm won't.

stugib

almillar wrote: »

Looks stable enough to me :-)
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/22/palm-ceo-still-thinks-company-can-go-it-alone-open-to-webos-lic/

The Reg's take is that it's because no-one was interested in buying them: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/23/palm_for_sale/

atali

Anyway back to the phone rather than worrying about the company.
I have had my Pre for a month now and would recommend it to anyone. The webOS software is fantastic and the design of the phone is excellent. It looks great, works great and has great news and podcast apps which I use all the time. All my contacts from Google and Facebook synched seamlessly when I initially created my Palm Profile. MSN access is possible through an app (IM+ which has been mentioned). The app catalogue has more than doubled since the start of April and new apps get added daily at an increasing rate. I see no reason this trend won’t continue. It still lacks a few apps I would expect but I am sure they are on their way.
The keyboard is absolutely great. I can type quickly and accurately and it was one of the other major reasons I got the phone. I also love the touchstone charger and don’t know why other phones haven’t adopted the technology. It’s a must have if you get the Pre.
Only problem I have come across is when the phone can become laggy when you have apps updating in the background but otherwise it’s great to have apps opened and being able to switch between them effortlessly.

Overall summary compared to alternatives:

Positive:
Best operating system
Stylish design (Curved compact look which fits the pocket very well)
Excellent portrait keyboard
Wireless touchstone charging

Negative:
Smallest app store (But growing quickly)
Internal hardware is average

If you’re going to get a Smartphone then I think you will find the Pre is a great choice.

One thing to note though in your decision is that he Pre Plus is likely to be released by O2 soon which gives you more memory and a larger hard drive. It will probably be priced like the Pre was originally. So around £200 more than the Pre is at the moment on the cheapest tariff.

gjchester

atali wrote: »

One thing to note though in your decision is that he Pre Plus is likely to be released by O2 soon which gives you more memory and a larger hard drive. It will probably be priced like the Pre was originally. So around £200 more than the Pre is at the moment on the cheapest tariff.

As I've said before I doubt the Pre plus or Pixi (or Pixi plus) will ever arrive here, the Pre's not been a big seller for O2.

However if they do price it like this than once again a great way to kill the brand before they even start. The cheapest PCM Pre contract is £30 PCM, on a £30 a month contract you can get a iphone for £99/£179/£279. O2 don't so the HTC Desire but given the Sony Ericcson X10 is £99 on a £30 PCM contract the Pre needsto be at £99 or less to have any chance agains the Apple / Android phones on the market.

Very few people will want to pay more money for the Pre than the iPhone, it's not got the fashion icon staus or the premium brand placement to go with it.

atali

gjchester wrote: »

As I've said before I doubt the Pre plus or Pixi (or Pixi plus) will ever arrive here, the Pre's not been a big seller for O2.

However if they do price it like this than once again a great way to kill the brand before they even start. The cheapest PCM Pre contract is £30 PCM, on a £30 a month contract you can get a iphone for £99/£179/£279. O2 don't so the HTC Desire but given the Sony Ericcson X10 is £99 on a £30 PCM contract the Pre needsto be at £99 or less to have any chance agains the Apple / Android phones on the market.

Very few people will want to pay more money for the Pre than the iPhone, it's not got the fashion icon staus or the premium brand placement to go with it.

Actually it is free on the £25 PCM. Cheapest iPhone is £149 on the £25 tariff.
It's probably the best value for money for people who want a high performance smartphone on as low a budget as possible.
Problem is no one knows about the Palm Pre as it hasn't been advertised. It won't be price that kills the phone. Everyone who I show it too loves it and I am sure they will see what Palm has to offer when their contracts end. Hopefully any future Palm phone will won't be tied to one carrier and will be heavily promoted as it is such a great phone to use.

gjchester

atali wrote: »

Actually it is free on the £25 PCM. Cheapest iPhone is £149 on the £25 tariff.
It's probably the best value for money for people who want a high performance smartphone on as low a budget as possible.

I was more referring to your suggestion the Pre Plus will be about the £200 mark on any tarrif. The Pre is a dead duck, didn't sell many and probably won't sell a load more. Although o2 don't do the Desire yet, that can be got on a similar tarrif and is advertised everywhere at the moment. There are posters pushing it at many bus stops...

atali wrote: »

Problem is no one knows about the Palm Pre as it hasn't been advertised. It won't be price that kills the phone. Everyone who I show it too loves it and I am sure they will see what Palm has to offer when their contracts end. Hopefully any future Palm phone will won't be tied to one carrier and will be heavily promoted as it is such a great phone to use.

And the reason why it didn't get advertised is???

I read O2 have it as an exclusive for 2 years, problem is O2 are also heavily into the iPhone and thats what is getting the marketing budget. That's what killed the Pre before it even started. If it had gone to Vodafone, who didn't have the iPhone at the time it may have fared better, but it didn't and looking back can you honestly say you ever saw many adverts for it. There was the woman on a rock one that looked visually interesting as an advert but didn't really tell you anything about what the phone did, and thats it.

It's not the first time lousy marketting has wrecked a product before it even got launched, and won't be the last.

WebOS looks nice, but thats not enough in this climate, unless someone big buys Palm it will vanish. No-one is going to licence the Palm OS unless it's really, really cheap, when Windows Mobile 7 is on the horizon, and Apple and Android is already here. W7 will have Microsofts pockets to advertise it, iPhone adverts are everywhere, Android is free to use. Why would anyone licence WebOS against these big players?

Look at the Playstation and Xbox, Sony and Microsoft are reported to have lost shedloads of money on the PS1 /Xbox 1, and only started to see a return on the 360 and PS2. Sony and Microsoft was willing to commit long term to ensure future success, and that takes deep pockets and a long term vision.

Apple and Google are investing heavily in promoting the iPhone and pushing Android, (Google wrote the Android OS and give it away free). Why? Purely so they have a future share of a market, and the market is NOT about the hardware people have, but how Google and Apple can get advertising to you. The future revenue for in product advertising is predicted to be that good Google can afford to develop and give away Android, so they have a way into it with the OS and Android market.

I don't see Palm fitting into these categories well. The reports of sales are well down, in the 3 months to Feb the FT says they sold a reported 408,000 Pre and Pixi Phones, in the same time Apple sold 8.7 million iPhones. Palm say they needs to train people in shops better to help sell the phones, but that takes time and money, and they are IMHO living on borrowed time. Iphones sell themselves, *everyone* knows someone with an iPhone, how many people do you know with a Pre?
Market analyst are downgrading Palms shares from hold to sell, as they are not sure of the companies future and ultimatly that is the issue (and going back to the OP question).

If Market analayts don't see a future for Palm, why would you buy one? Far better to buy an Android or Apple phone where in a years time there is a good chance the company willstill be there and the app store still running.

stugib

gjchester wrote: »

It's not the first time lousy marketting has wrecked a product before it even got launched, and won't be the last.

That whole post a good analysis IMHO, and it won't be the first time that a [arguably] technically superior product loses out and dies a death either.