The Great 'Get Paid To Generate Energy' Hunt

jackieblack

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Hi
Is your 2.2kWp system a 13 x170W panel installation ? ..... if so I'd question why they would have originally planned to 'definately not' use the Diehl 2100S on your 13 panel install ..........

No. it's 12 x 185w panels

but they say they definitely wouldn't use it on a 13 panel system.... does one panel fewer really make enough difference to make this 'a good inverter for my system'?

zeupater

jackieblack wrote: »

No. it's 12 x 185w panels

but they say they definitely wouldn't use it on a 13 panel system.... does one panel fewer really make enough difference to make this 'a good inverter for my system'?

Hi

It could do .... the Diehl looks like it can only take one string but the Fronius IG30 can accomodate two ...... however ....... 13 can't readily be divided by two, so I've just checked the IG30 on the Fronius SolarConfigurator package ....

If I've guessed correctly, your panels will be the Sharp NU185 and the IG30 can take 13 or 14 of these on a single string, or two strings of 8 each or 9 each ..... looks like the excuse of the IG30 being in short supply is a little bit of smoke & mirrors .... they should never have quoted for an IG30 in the first place on your system, the single string IG20 would be recommended by the software for 12 NU185 panels with optimum performance being on 13 panels ..... looks like they quoted incorrectly and have reassessed at ordering stage, so, unless they admit their error on the quote and claim that the IG30 was a cut & paste error, ask for a price reduction ...

Regards

PS .... Just checked the SMA Sunnyboy 2500, its the rough SMA equivalent of the IG30, and the Sunnydesign software seems to like 12 x NU185 panels ... it should also cost roughly the same (options .... options .... )

jackieblack

zeupater wrote: »

Following on from the post above, I've just been reading the specs on the Diehl inverters ...... looks like the Diehl 2800S (2400W(nom)/2600W(max)) is close to being the Fronius IG30's (2500W(nom)/2650W(max)) twin brother ..... might be an idea to ask for performance comparison on the 2800S through the installers configurator software if they're in free supply .....
HTH

I've asked about the 2800S, but have been told it has been discontinued (and that it wouldn't have been suitable for my installation anyway - although they didn't say why, it was a message)

They're adamant that the Diehl 2100S is a good option for me but I've been offered a Dorfmuller DMI900/70 as an alternative. http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.dorfmueller-solaranlagen.de/info.htm&ei=Uh23TN-qMtHPjAfj6_iNCg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDIQ7gEwBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddorfmuller%2Binverter%2Bdmi%2B900/70%26hl%3Den


I really feel like I'm being backed into a corner....... :mad:
(And I'm more confused than ever!:o)

jackieblack

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

If I've guessed correctly, your panels will be the Sharp NU185

They are Mitsubishi PV-TD185 panels - don't know if that makes a difference?

zeupater wrote: »

and the IG30 can take 13 or 14 of these on a single string, or two strings of 8 each or 9 each ..... looks like the excuse of the IG30 being in short supply is a little bit of smoke & mirrors .... they should never have quoted for an IG30 in the first place on your system, the single string IG20 would be recommended by the software for 12 NU185 panels with optimum performance being on 13 panels

So, is it a blessing in disguise that they can't get the IG30? and would the Diehl 2100S be a good replacement after all then?

zeupater wrote: »

..... looks like they quoted incorrectly and have reassessed at ordering stage, so, unless they admit their error on the quote and claim that the IG30 was a cut & paste error, ask for a price reduction ...

They say they can't do anything on the price because they already dropped their price to match a competitor and also that the price they pay (to bulk buy) isn't that different.

zeupater wrote: »

PS .... Just checked the SMA Sunnyboy 2500, its the rough SMA equivalent of the IG30, and the Sunnydesign software seems to like 12 x NU185 panels ... it should also cost roughly the same (options .... options .... )

jackieblack

zeupater wrote: »

they should never have quoted for an IG30 in the first place on your system, the single string IG20 would be recommended by the software for 12 NU185 panels with optimum performance being on 13 panels .....

Now they're offering me an IG20! (apparently they have these in stock)

So, I need to make decision by tomorrow afternoon.

Here are my choices with the figures they've given me (which I don't really fully understand ).

If to be installed in 10 days time:

Diehl 2100S (but this isn't compatible with their remote monitoring system)

PV Array Irradiation: 18,662 kWh
Energy Produced by PV Array (AC): 1,852.9 kWh
Grid Feed-in: 1,852.9 kWh
System Efficiency: 9.9 %
Performance Ratio: 73.6 %
Inverter Efficiency: 90.4 %
PV Array Efficiency: 10.9 %

Specific Annual Yield: 829.5 kWh/kWp

Fronius IG20 (which is compatible with their remote monitoring system)

PV Array Irradiation: 18,662 kWh
Energy Produced by PV Array (AC): 1,849.1 kWh
Grid Feed-in: 1,849.1 kWh
System Efficiency: 9.9 %
Performance Ratio: 73.6 %
Inverter Efficiency: 90.2 %
PV Array Efficiency: 11.0 %

Specific Annual Yield: 829.4 kWh/kWp

or wait for the IG30 (which, it seems, may not hae been the best option after all, despite being what I was quoted for) which means I don't know when I'll end up getting the panels installed

PV Array Irradiation: 18,662 kWh
Energy Produced by PV Array (AC): 1,855.7 kWh
Grid Feed-in: 1,855.7 kWh
System Efficiency: 9.9 %
Performance Ratio: 73.9 %
Inverter Efficiency: 90.5 %
PV Array Efficiency: 11.0 %

Specific Annual Yield: 832.4 kWh/kWp

zeupater

jackieblack wrote: »

Now they're offering me an IG20! (apparently they have these in stock)

So, I need to make decision by tomorrow afternoon.

Here are my choices with the figures they've given me (which I don't really fully understand ).

If to be installed in 10 days time: ...............

Agree ....... Looks like they are backing you into a corner and a DMI900/70 really takes the biscuit, a 910W inverter for a 2.2kWp system ! :rotfl: ..... hope they're suggesting a pair of them ..... I don't know what configuration software they're using, but I'd probably trust the inverter manufacturer's own software over it ........

Personally, I know people with Fronius and SMA inverters, I've seen information on the Diehl and comments which say that they're decent kit, but apart from that I can't really comment.

I have my own opinion on sizing inverters and that's not based on the idea that a panel only produces maximum power on day one so allow for a 10% to 15% reduction in inverter sizing (remember the Belgian article referenced a couple of posts ago points to this being purely a cost related rule). Pushing any electrical or mechanical device to operate at close to maximum performance usually has a detrimental effect on it's useful life ..... I'd rather have a little more leeway at the 'top end' and gain a few extra years on the inverter life, especially if there's no difference in price ........

Good luck ......

jackieblack

zeupater wrote: »

they should never have quoted for an IG30 in the first place on your system,

Because it's unsuitable?

zeupater wrote: »

the single string IG20 would be recommended by the software for 12 NU185 panels

So should I opt for the IG20?

jackieblack

zeupater wrote: »

I I'd rather have a little more leeway at the 'top end' and gain a few extra years on the inverter life, especially if there's no difference in price ........

So, are you saying you'd hold out for the IG30?

zeupater

jackieblack wrote: »

Because it's unsuitable?



So should I opt for the IG20?

Hi

Feeding either the Sharp or Mitsubishi 185W panels into Fronius's own software does not provide an option for 12 panels on the IG30, it does on the IG20 and it does if you feed 12 panels into SMA software for a Sunnyboy 2500 (which has similar specifications to the IG30).

You can download manufacturers' configuration software for free from the SMA website and the Fronius website and check which panel makes & combinations are applicable, Diehl seem to have software too ......

If you're being forced into a corner for a quick decision between the Diehl and the Fronius, as the specs are so similar it's really 'toss a coin' time, however Fronius seems to be a more recognised brand in the UK, but then again the Diehl has a sexier display, if that's relevant to you (If the inverter's in the loft you'll never look at it anyway !!).

zeupater

jackieblack wrote: »

So, are you saying you'd hold out for the IG30?

If it was my install I would be looking for an inverter which more closely matched the rated kWp of the array for the reasons previously mentioned, but, having downloaded and checked the configuration on the manufacturers' own software, would have concerns about the Fronius software not providing a configuration option for 12 x 185W Mitsubishi or Sharp panels on an IG30 which I would be checking with both the installer and directly with Fronius before taking a decision to wait for the IG30 option ..........

HTH