Dealing with kitchen fitters/electricians

Aristotle67

I am trying to find some tradespersons to rip out and install a new kitchen, decorate, and do the electrics. I am working to a budget and made that clear to the tradespersons who came round.

I was very pleased with the quote from the fitter/decorator, but not with the quote from the electrician. I am not going to go into the amount of work to be done here, as that is not the issue. Good workmanship costs money and I am happy to pay for it. The issue is one of principle; the electrician will not reduce his price by a single penny. This takes the cost to over 20% more than my budget, and my kitchen is very small.

I have explained that I simply do not have the money to pay the full amount requested, and both tradesmen know what my budget is. I suggested that if they could meet me halfway, so that I am 10% over budget, I might be able to manage it. That way we are both compromising. They won't come down. I have offered to pay cash; the fitter/decorator factored that in to his quote, the electrician says it makes no difference to him and won't reduce his price. I have said that I will write excellent testimonials for them if I am happy with the work and will promote them actively by word of mouth. Again, this cuts no ice with the electrician.

The electrician has tried what seems to me to be all the tricks he can to keep his price as it is, including pointing out that anyone who does it cheaper may be a cowboy, how paramount safety is and how he doesn't cut corners, how others ways of doing it may be a false economy, and finally (the one that convinces me that he is being uncompromising) he says he is under the impression that I think he overquotes for work and is insulted by this. To me, that is one of the oldest lines in the book.

The kitchen fitter won't do the work unless I use this electrician (I suggested finding a different one) and he has now waded in, saying that in order for them to come down in total price they would have to reduce their wages. I have emphasied that I have no issue with the fitter, but with the electrician. I have also emphasised that there is no doubt in my mind that the fitter and the electrician will do a first rate job.

I also emphasised that, by profession, I am an academic lawyer with a particular interest in contract. Previously, the kitchen units in a flat I rented collapsed. The landlord and I went after the kitchen fitter and through his insurance obtained substantial damages not just in relation to the units but the contents of those which were damaged or broken. I'm speculating, but I wonder if that makes the tradespersons wary about dealing with me; certainly, once a contract price is agreed, they would face an uphill struggle regarding any additional costs which they say would be incurred.

Regardless of the amount or nature of the work to be done, I cannot engage tradespeople who will not negotiate but expect you to accept their quote with no reduction whatsoever. To do so would be to conduct business like the people on the Moneysupermarket adverts who say "well, if that is your best quote" and accept it without haggling. Anyone who does that leaves themselves open to "get done", in my view.

Finally, my question: Is this how the trade works, i.e. that you accept the quote or you don't get the work done, or is it the case that you should negotiate and if the tradespeople will not budge by even a single penny then you go elsewhere?

andyhop

First quote is my best quote, I am not into haggling customers, Cash discounts etc

If you are not happy with the price then go elsewhere

zax47

andyhop wrote: »

First quote is my best quote, I am not into haggling customers, Cash discounts etc

If you are not happy with the price then go elsewhere

Ditto! We have skills, we price accordingly. We don't have time to waste haggling so we quote our "best price" first time, every time. Like it or go elsewhere - it's a buyers market after all - BUT do be sure you are comparing like with like, not just labour or parts costs but skills, qualifications and ability to certify to Part P etc. too cheap should ring alarm bells - corners WILL be cut!!.

Your budget may not be realistic for the work you want doing. Check typical prices for electrical work here.

Lastly, a good tradesman will be busy and have plenty of work booked ahead of time - a bad one can always start next week!

fluffpot

Do you go into Sainsburys and start haggling over the price of a can of beans? NO, thought not, so why do you expect the same here? Have you ever been haggled on your monthly wage by your employer? Hmmmm, maybe not then..

If you are on a budget then you should work with the fitter and sparks to agree a reduced amount of work eg less sockets, cheaper door handles etc

TBH if you threw the 'academic lawyer' bit at me, my prices would GO UP by 10% as you sound like a difficult client - as bourne out by the fact that you state that "certainly, once a contract price is agreed, they would face an uphill struggle regarding any additional costs which they say would be incurred"

Stop wasting their time and either agree a reduced spec or get another price.

GRR

jackieglasgow

Aristotle67 wrote: »

I have explained that I simply do not have the money to pay the full amount requested, and both tradesmen know what my budget is. I suggested that if they could meet me halfway, so that I am 10% over budget, I might be able to manage it. That way we are both compromising.
The electrician has tried what seems to me to be all the tricks he can to keep his price as it is, including pointing out that anyone who does it cheaper may be a cowboy, how paramount safety is and how he doesn't cut corners, how others ways of doing it may be a false economy, and finally (the one that convinces me that he is being uncompromising) he says he is under the impression that I think he overquotes for work and is insulted by this. To me, that is one of the oldest lines in the book.


I also emphasised that, by profession, I am an academic lawyer with a particular interest in contract. Previously, the kitchen units in a flat I rented collapsed. The landlord and I went after the kitchen fitter and through his insurance obtained substantial damages not just in relation to the units but the contents of those which were damaged or broken. I'm speculating, but I wonder if that makes the tradespersons wary about dealing with me; certainly, once a contract price is agreed, they would face an uphill struggle regarding any additional costs which they say would be incurred.

Regardless of the amount or nature of the work to be done, I cannot engage tradespeople who will not negotiate but expect you to accept their quote with no reduction whatsoever. To do so would be to conduct business like the people on the Moneysupermarket adverts who say "well, if that is your best quote" and accept it without haggling. Anyone who does that leaves themselves open to "get done", in my view.

Finally, my question: Is this how the trade works, i.e. that you accept the quote or you don't get the work done, or is it the case that you should negotiate and if the tradespeople will not budge by even a single penny then you go elsewhere?

You really have a bit of a cheek to be honest. A good tradesman will give you his best and final price at the time of the quote. As an academic lawyer, do you negotiate the price of your skills with your clients, or do you have a set price per hour? If you have taken the time to point out to them what your profession is, that implies to me that you are forewarning them that you may be "difficult" - the part which I have put in bold text, above. How did you come to find these people? Were they recommended to you, have you seen the quality of work they do? If they are good tradespeople with good credentials, then they are probably worth all they are charging, and more.

Yes, I am a women, but my husband is in the building trade, and I type up his quotations for him, there is not really any room for negotiation on price, especially for domestic customers, as he gives his best price first - he wants the work, and doesn't have time to play games, nor can we afford to lose work if the client finds him too dear, and is scared to haggle. Get quoted from other companies and compare prices, and if you are comparing apples for apples, there should be very little in the price.

Aristotle67

Thanks for taking time out to respond, guys and gal. Much appreciated.

I will reply to some comments:

Do you go into Sainsburys and start haggling over the price of a can of beans?

No, of course I don't. But when purchasing a car, furniture, or other major items I always haggle and if there is no margin for negotiation then I go elsewhere or go without. I don't usually have to do either!

Have you ever been haggled on your monthly wage by your employer? Hmmmm, maybe not then..

Yes. If it is a case that if an organisation wants me as a consultant or an employee, they ask how much I want to come in and do what is required. They then say what they can afford to pay and we usually meet somewhere between the two prices. If they say halfway through that they are facing a crisis and cannot pay what is agreed, then as long as this is genuine and unforseen I will understand and carry on doing what I have agreed to do. That's just me, though.

TBH if you threw the 'academic lawyer' bit at me, my prices would GO UP by 10% as you sound like a difficult client -

So you would be overcharging, compared to what you would charge another customer? I only pointed this out to the tradespersons in our final conversation, long after there had been protracted discussion of the estimates.

as bourne out by the fact that you state that "certainly, once a contract price is agreed, they would face an uphill struggle regarding any additional costs which they say would be incurred"

Any additional costs incurred have to be reasonable; if I think they are not, I wouldn't accept them and would be happy to allow a court to determine whether or not they are reasonable. If they are, then the court would so find, but I would not waste time defending my position if I was obviously incorrect in my assessment.

If by a "difficult client" you mean that I will ensure that contract law is observed at all times, then yes, you can call me a "difficult client"!!! For example, I would ensure that the jobs were performed within a reasonable time, which is an impied term of the contract. That is the right of all clients! If the tradespersons are genuine, complete the work within a reasonable time and to the standard expected taking the contract price into consideration, and do not attempt to impose any additional charges unreasonably, they would have nothing to worry about. So, as long as they don't "try anything" but simply do what they have contracted to do, there will be no issues.

As an academic lawyer, do you negotiate the price of your skills with your clients,

I have dealt with this in my reply to an earlier question. I will add that I often act pro bono (i.e. gratis) for people who are clearly being taken advantage of; I do not like seeing injustice. Usually it is nothing major, maybe just handling matters in the small claims court (where legal expenses are never awarded) but I will help friends, family and people whom I have never met if they need assistance and cannot find it elsewhere.

I'm not suggesting that tradespersons should do the same, of course!

How did you come to find these people? Were they recommended to you, have you seen the quality of work they do?

The fitter/decorator is registered with check-a-trade; the electrician is not. As emphasised, I have no issues with the fitter/decorator. I have copied the electrician's estimates to a number of people and every one of them is shocked (no pun intended). The quote is far too high, particularly in the current climate.

Thanks again to all who responded.

jackieglasgow

In the current climate, most good electricians can pick and chose their jobs, which is probably why he is so uncompromising in his quote!

Plasterer

jackieglasgow wrote: »

In the current climate, most good electricians can pick and chose their jobs, which is probably why he is so uncompromising in his quote!

I agree, same with plumbers - also electrics and gas is not something you can "leave off" its a neccesity whereas other work that needs doing like "ahem" plastering, decorating carpet fitting etc can wait until you can afford to have it done which puts pressure on THE MASTER TRADES and lessens the work in turn pushing the rates down

zfrl

Aristotle67 wrote: »

The fitter/decorator is registered with check-a-trade; the electrician is not.

Never heard of check-a-trade. The electrician should be registered with a recognised body, ECA, NICEIC etc.

OH is electrician - quote is best price - any attempts at negotiation by the client will usually mean he walks away. This is due to several bad experiences - picky customers who try to micro manage (without any knowledge), change in spec half way through job (but no change in price!) and usually they are very bad payers.

If you are not happy you will have to look for another fitter.

phill99

I simply wouldn't work for you.

Work or no work, you sound like the worst of worst of customers. The fact that you are already referring to court proceedings and the job hasn't even started would make most decent and reputable tradesman stick two fingers up at you.

If you think you can do the job, then you do it. Then see how far you get.

If you want a skilled job then pay for it. Why should a tradesman pay for your budget problems?

Canucklehead

Good afternoon: many tradespersons will work only for customers recommended to them by a source they trust.;)

HTH

Canucklehead