Dealing with kitchen fitters/electricians

Aristotle67

phill99 wrote: »

Work or no work, you sound like the worst of worst of customers. The fact that you are already referring to court proceedings and the job hasn't even started would make most decent and reputable tradesman stick two fingers up at you.

If by that you mean I will insist that both parties, myself included, discharge their duties under the contract and will enforce this, then I accept what you are saying. But the fact is that, under law, this is what parties to a contract have to do; one party cannot unilaterally vary the terms of a contract. Why would a tradesperson who will do things correctly and in accordance with their obgliations have an issue with this?

For my part, I am required to pay the agreed price at the agreed time. If I am not satisfied with the work done, I cannot withhold payment and would not do so. Some people might do this, but that is not the correct procedure. The right thing to do is to pay the agreed amount and then make a claim for breach of contract, if indeed that is what has occurred.

Before you label me as the worst of worst customers, let me point out a couple more things. I do not insist on quotes being in writing, as there is no need for this; a verbal agreement is binding. Perhaps more significantly, I do not have a problem paying the entire balance up front if that is what is agreed. I don't think you will find many people who will be comfortable doing that. The reason I don't have a problem is because if the tradesperson does not do what is agreed within a reasonable time, he is in breach of contract and I can make a claim against him. The fact that he has my money makes no difference in law; it does not compromise my position and I see no danger of me losing the money paid out.

jackieglasgow

Aristotle, you are getting really bogged down in defending your position on contract law. To refer to your original post, you wished to know if it was normal for tradespeople to have non negotiable pricing structures, we have almost unilateraly agreed that this is the case, the question for you is how to move forward. I would think the reasons people are referring to you being potentially difficult is your use of somewhat pedantic language, and their experience of customers with no working knowledge of their trade who do, on many occasions (as a previous poster said), micro manage the projects, and will not negotiate if unforseen circumstances arise which would cause costs to escalate.

You appear to have made it pretty clear that you want a cut price job (which we can only assume as you have failed to post the quote, even though this board is for exactly that), and will be unwilling to give your contractor any leeway if things do not go according to plan. Not everyone is out to con you.

As an aside, I find it strange you did not use your expansive knowledge of contract law when dealing with your prepaid mastercard issue!:cool:

Aristotle67

jackieglasgow wrote: »

and their experience of customers with no working knowledge of their trade who do, on many occasions (as a previous poster said), micro manage the projects, and will not negotiate if unforseen circumstances arise which would cause costs to escalate.

Then they have overlooked my words earlier; any additional costs have tp be reasonable. It is quite possible that circumstances will give rise to additional costs, and as long as these are reasonable, then there can be no issue from either party; both parties are entitled to satisfy themselves that they are reasonable, however.

You appear to have made it pretty clear that you want a cut price job

absolutely not! I do NOT want a cut price job.

and will be unwilling to give your contractor any leeway if things do not go according to plan.

Not so; as I have written, additional costs are acceptable as long as they are reasonable.

As an aside, I find it strange you did not use your expansive knowledge of contract law when dealing with your prepaid mastercard issue!:cool:

I did; and it was sorted out! What I didn't know much about was banking law, which is a completely separate area.

C_Mababejive

Much of the OP is simply peripheral.

If you are not happy with the quote..go elsewhere..simples.

Why try to engage someone then undercut them?

They are skilled tradespeople not balkan bodgers.

Aristotle67

Thanks to everyone who has taken time out to post, and I do mean everyone, regardless of what they have said and or how I have responded.

The overriding message is clear. I will have to decide what, if anything, I wish to do.

I think we can wrap this thread up now.

booty40uk

I never haggle with customers either. If they dont accept a quote then fine, but im not going to lower my prices for anyone.

Next time i need a lawyer i'll come to you and see if you'll knock 20% off your bill for me.

Andy

Aristotle67

booty40uk wrote: »

INext time i need a lawyer i'll come to you and see if you'll knock 20% off your bill for me.

I refer to previous comments.

But if you do come to me, I can promise you that I would not be charging the £300 per day for labour that this guy wants to charge; and before anyone jumps in, it doesn't include parts! I have checked that out.

Having read elsewhere on this forum that the going rate for an electrician is about £150 per day, you can perhaps understand why I won't engage him if he won't negotiate on price.

fluffpot

Going rates vary from area to area - you wouldn't get a decent sparks in London for £150 a day for example

Fluff

zax47

Aristotle67 wrote: »

I refer to previous comments.

But if you do come to me, I can promise you that I would not be charging the £300 per day for labour that this guy wants to charge; and before anyone jumps in, it doesn't include parts! I have checked that out.

Having read elsewhere on this forum that the going rate for an electrician is about £150 per day, you can perhaps understand why I won't engage him if he won't negotiate on price.

My rates;

£30/hr capped at £250/day

or;

£45/h if you want to watch,
£55/h if you want to help,
£75 per hour if you rejected my quote, ballsed it up and then call me out to sort it,
£150/h if you want to "micro-manage" me. :eek:

brightontraveller

Your state that the going rate for an electrician is £150 per day there are lots of different types of electricians there skill levels , knowledge, pace of work, type of work undertaken, hours worked, location, demand for services, vary greatly. So to say they all should work for £150 a day is at best naive which could account for your budget being insufficient to start...

You do not state what level competence the person has, what exactly the works required are… There is just too much information missing for anyone to give you an answer that would be anything other than speculation or guess work?

Also contracts tend to fall into two groups: "commercial, arm's-length" contracts with, for example, exclusion of liability and similar clauses, and less formal agreements
(Some of the your terms would come under the Unfair Contract Terms Act and a court would strike them out)What exactly makes you think you have any expertise to make a judgement as to weather a price is fair or not as you have no experience, qualification in this field from what you have state.

The fact that they are not willing to work for less “for cash” sounds more that they unwilling to defraud the revenue service which maybe says more for there morals and beliefs than the person asking them to do so…

Suppose it’s a good thing your not actually a solicitor, barrister or alike then as you would be struck off for instructing someone to commit a criminal act.

I would have thought an “academic lawyer” would have known to deal in facts not speculation...