part p /new light fittings

rev229

I want to replace the white light fitting for the halogen ligts in my kitchen to chrome does the person doing it have to be part p registered, he has done it before and is very competent just no part p. Also do you need part p for replacing exsisting electric oven. Not sure what to do? Thanks

Martini

Oven - Yes part P registered!
Lights - Like for like replacement, No that's okay

YorkshireBoy

Martini wrote:

Oven - Yes part P registered!

I'm an electrical engineer (employed within industry rather than the 'house-bashing' sector) and I'd disagree with this statement.

Are you seriously suggesting we notify the local council each time we upgrade a cooking appliance?

Part P, according to their own website, is concerned with alterations and extensions to (primarily) the circuits that make up the installation - and in this case, special locations.

Replacing a faulty 7.5KW cooker with another (new) 7.5KW cooker is surely 'like for like'?

weekendwarrior

YorkshireBoy wrote:

I'm an electrical engineer (employed within industry rather than the 'house-bashing' sector) and I'd disagree with this statement.

Are you seriously suggesting we notify the local council each time we upgrade a cooking appliance?

Part P, according to their own website, is concerned with alterations and extensions to (primarily) the circuits that make up the installation - and in this case, special locations.

Replacing a faulty 7.5KW cooker with another (new) 7.5KW cooker is surely 'like for like'?

The last time I checked the Part P rules anything in a kitchen or bathroom is notifiable. They keep changing the damn stupid rules but You need to notify if in a kitchen or bathroom!

You can change the single electric oven if it has a plug on the flex, if it needs wiring then it is notifiable.

There is no common sense in Part P, It is not there to make things safer it is there to make some people richer, unfortunately

Most people Ignore Part p, not that I would condone doing anything like that

YorkshireBoy

weekendwarrior wrote:

You can change the single electric oven if it has a plug on the flex, if it needs wiring then it is notifiable.

...not according to...

"The Building Regulations 2000, Electrical safety - dwellings, Approved Document P"

m. The fitting and replacement of cookers and electric showers is not notifiable unless a new circuit is needed.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf (page 9)

Alan_M_2

Fair enough, it's not notifiable, but is the person undertaking the work required to be Part P registered?

I was of the understanding that even if the specific item weren't required to be notified any work undertaken in either Bathroom or Kitchen requires the holding of Part P registration. (assuming it's not the householder doing the work) have I assumed wrong?

YorkshireBoy

Alan_M wrote:

Fair enough, it's not notifiable, but is the person undertaking the work required to be Part P registered?

I would say not, because there's no 'design' work involved. It's simply like for like replacement/maintenance.

Ystrad_Lad

Good advice from YorkshireBoy. Replacing the cooker is not notifiable. The person carrying out the work should be competent but does not have to be Part P registered.

Cut and paste this link to your browser to check it out for yourself.
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue15/2005_15_summer_wiring_matters_part_p_notifications_to_building_control.pdf

There are lots of competent electricians who are not registered. This is a costly execise and is only worth doing if the electrician does a lot of domestic work. When they need to, they just notify the building control department of the local authority directly.

YorkshireBoy

Ystrad Lad,

That's a good find, and the IEE is *the* best source (I didn't have much time to search this morning, so just googled and quoted from the first returned source).

Thanks very much.

There are lots of competent electricians who are not registered.

Conversely, there are many 'kitchen fitters' who *are* registered. This is what makes Part P so controversial to professionals such as myself - with 29 years experience and many technical qualifications to boot!

weekendwarrior

This is where Part P becomes confusing.

The IEE has far more credibility than the NICEIC in my opinion.

It's very confusing for people, but I can see more people ignoring it now that The HIPS have been put on hold-

Check out the new rules for electrical safety in the home- http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_PTP_NEWRULESenglish.pdf

Look at box A on the right hand side-

YOU DO NOT NEED TO TELL YOUR LOCAL AUTHORITIES BUILDING CONTROL DEPARTMENT ABOUT-

* REPAIRS REPLACEMENTS AND MAINTENANCE WORK
* EXTRA POWER POINTS OR OTHER ALTERATIONS TO EXISTING CIRCUITS (UNLESS IT IS IN A KITCHEN OR BATHROOM)

Then check this out on the NICEIC website- http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/newsitemjan052.html

Under the new law, homeowners are still able to replace accessories such as light switches and sockets to an existing circuit, although there are exceptions for locations such as kitchens and bathrooms. An electrician registered under a government-approved scheme must undertake all other work. The alternative, for DIY'ers, is to notify a local building control body before starting any work and pay the appropriate fee for an inspection and a certificate after work is completed.

Like I said before the IEE has more credibilty than the NICEIC, but the NICEIC are responsible for part p, not the IEE!


The whole thing is a complete mess, with conflicting advice all over the place.

I too thought that like for like replacement of an oven was ok, until I posted it in a forum and was pulled up on it by a sparks!

I also got caught out by bonding- I told someone how to do it and that it was not notifiable, but in the part p rules it said that supplementary or main bonding was not notifiable **unless it was in a kitchen or a bathroom- WHERE ELSE WOULD YOU DO SUPPLEMENTARY BONDING Now the document has been changed and you do not need to notify !!!!

Part P and the NICEIC are there for one reason- to make people rich!

I work with several real sparks, like you yorkshireboy, they are all members of the IEE and can wire up anything, unless it is in their own home

chilli_dog

very interesting thread,

we have just had a new shower fitted, we had an electrician to come and fit the shower electrics for us. I did not know about these new rules and the electrician did not offer any info. Who is at fault here?

WHen did the new regs come into effect? can you not say that you had the work done before they came into effect?

Ps the shower was a complete new install. we did not have one fitted before