Election, internet, blocking and our rights - just want your opinions.

Darksun

stevemLS wrote: »

action under the Human Rights Act?

How my heart sinks.

The Human Rights Act is a fabulous statutory recognition of our basic rights in this country, when used properly.

However, exactly which of the Convention Rights are being violated or interfered with here - none!

Well, I said 'realistically there wouldn't be much chance', my comment was partly in jest, but the library is operated (I assume) by a public authority and therefore action under the HRA is possible.

In terms of specific articles, restricting Internet access could potentially violate articles 10 and 11 of the convention (right to freedom of expression and right to freedom of association) as well as articles 2 and 3 of the first protocol (right to freedom of education and free elections). Many countries and international organisations are pushing to establish Internet access as a fundamental human right.

Now, personally I don't think any of the rights have been restricted in this case (although I'm not a lawyer or judge), but there are plenty of cases where blocking specific sites would violate some or all of the articles mentioned above (e.g. a council ordering that the websites of opposition parties be blocked).

esuhl

Widelats wrote: »

Since all 3 party leaders are going online to youtube and facebook, everyone should have a right to access these sites?

Absolutely. I had a friend who didn't have a TV or newsagents near him and he successfully sued the government who sent him a free TV and courier a wide selection of newspapers to him each day.

Another mate down the pub also sued the local library. He asked for a copy of a book on politics but it was already on loan, so he didn't have the freedom to read it. He might as well have been in prison! His human rights were clearly violated.



Seriously, though, I can't see how a library could look at each video on YouTube and decide whether to block it or not... in which case they need to make a blanket policy that will inevitibly block desirable content or unblock undesirable content (or both).

Besides, it would be far better to obtain written information on party policies. The human mind is too susceptible to propoganda and unjustified beliefs: video contains much more opportunity for people to evaluate unreliable attributes such as body language and intonation, and come to a conclusion like "he sounds trustworthy" or "he looks honest".

Have you heard what some of Sarah Palin's supporters said when asked why they backed her? Virtually no one could name a single policy that she believed in, and essentially said that they like her "style"... whatever that means.

People need the facts, not a "general impression" of whether a politician is likeable. Facts are better written down; general impressions are more easily obtained from audio/video soundbites, I reckon.

Widelats

Darksun wrote: »

Well, I said 'realistically there wouldn't be much chance', my comment was partly in jest, but the library is operated (I assume) by a public authority and therefore action under the HRA is possible.

In terms of specific articles, restricting Internet access could potentially violate articles 10 and 11 of the convention (right to freedom of expression and right to freedom of association) as well as articles 2 and 3 of the first protocol (right to freedom of education and free elections). Many countries and international organisations are pushing to establish Internet access as a fundamental human right.

Now, personally I don't think any of the rights have been restricted in this case (although I'm not a lawyer or judge), but there are plenty of cases where blocking specific sites would violate some or all of the articles mentioned above (e.g. a council ordering that the websites of opposition parties be blocked).

Well the library policy is as follows: "We will never restrict a legitimate request for information, and ALL people have access to it" its on them lines.

Now, i have a blind neighbour who can not read, but she could listen to videos online, but with the policy of the library all media and music and video is blocked permanently, meaning she can not use the library for anything except braille books, and what she wants to do is listen to broadcasts, etc, this is just 1 reason i think the library policies are crap and are excluding people, and anyways, i am not the type of person to look at heritage or museums i want to communicate on forums, social sites, play a few games while i find things out.

Even though my library DOES allow facebook access, it still blocks all the applications that people use all i get is a blank white screen and it loading for ages, facebook was permanently blocked by websense for 3 years as nobody brought it to their attention, seems to me that people accept anything and say things like "well, ya know, sometimes you just have to accept things like that." But i don't accept it, its not my fault that every time facebook gets a site update websense can't tell the difference and blocks it again.

To everyone saying websense is fine, well your plain wrong so i can't listen to you, and i have gone ahead and contacted the Library manager, not that it will do much good as i don't think council people reply to anyone.

drsquirrel

Widelats wrote: »

Well the library policy is as follows: "We will never restrict a legitimate request for information, and ALL people have access to it" its on them lines.

Now, i have a blind neighbour who can not read, but she could listen to videos online, but with the policy of the library all media and music and video is blocked permanently, meaning she can not use the library for anything except braille books, and what she wants to do is listen to broadcasts, etc, this is just 1 reason i think the library policies are crap and are excluding people, and anyways, i am not the type of person to look at heritage or museums i want to communicate on forums, social sites, play a few games while i find things out.

Even though my library DOES allow facebook access, it still blocks all the applications that people use all i get is a blank white screen and it loading for ages, facebook was permanently blocked by websense for 3 years as nobody brought it to their attention, seems to me that people accept anything and say things like "well, ya know, sometimes you just have to accept things like that." But i don't accept it, its not my fault that every time facebook gets a site update websense can't tell the difference and blocks it again.

To everyone saying websense is fine, well your plain wrong so i can't listen to you, and i have gone ahead and contacted the Library manager, not that it will do much good as i don't think council people reply to anyone.

Does your blind neighbour have alternative access? Like at a local blind college? (I know they do around here).

As for the previous "Free Election" comment, that might be the case if the library was blocking access to all Labour Party (ie, just one of the parties etc) material etc, but they're not... so no bias

As for facebook, a lot of the applications are actually from other sites (poker = zynga etc) so internal looking "applications" are actually considered another site.

Facebook is a bit of a security risk anyway, every time you accept an application to allow access to your data, that is one more place that has your info, and quite a lot of it too at points. I guess it's not their fault that websense blocks it either

RobertoMoir

Widelats wrote: »

To everyone saying websense is fine, well your plain wrong so i can't listen to you,

Yes you're right. Being a consultant to Microsoft on internet security, setting Websense up and administering it for about 7 years, and being asked by other organisations for advice on how best to implement filtering clearly means I'm wrong about how websense and tools like it work and know nothing about internet security and filtering compared to someone who simply has had a few sites blocked in their local library.

How foolish of me not to realise that until now. :rotfl:

I had thought that with my (woefully inadequate as I can now see) knowledge of web filtering that I might offer you a few pointers on how to complain effectively about the poor management of filtering at your library.

Do let us know how you get on by the way. I'm eager to learn so that next time I won't be so wrong. Then maybe people will listen to me.

Blacksheep1979

Widelats wrote: »

I see what a load of useless time asking questions here is, except for Roberts and The what do they know link. Thanks for all being scaredy cats and accepting whatever the council and govornment throws at you.

You seem more than happy with what the government 'throws at you' - you're getting free internet and benefits. If you want the right to voice an opinion start being a constructive member of society and pay your own way.

Widelats

Thanks for all your support.

pulliptears

Just to be pedantic....

There are a dozen ways to access blocked websites, not in the least by converting the host name to IP address. Companies tend to block https://www.whateversite.com, not the IP.

Try it, paste this in your browser
66.220.153.15

Widelats

pulliptears wrote: »

Just to be pedantic....

There are a dozen ways to access blocked websites, not in the least by converting the host name to IP address. Companies tend to block www.whateversite.com, not the IP.

Try it, paste this in your browser
66.220.153.15

Thanks, but i got a white page and this message no idea what it means:


Network Access Message: The page cannot be displayedTechnical Information (for Support personnel)

• <LI id=L_dt_3>Error Code: 502 Proxy Error. The host was not found.(11001) <LI id=L_dt_4>IP Address: 191.10.184.2 <LI id=L_dt_5>Date: 4/16/2010 12:41:52 PM [GMT] <LI id=L_dt_6>Server: isa4.public.net
• Source: proxy

Widelats

drsquirrel wrote: »

Does your blind neighbour have alternative access? Like at a local blind college? (I know they do around here).

As for the previous "Free Election" comment, that might be the case if the library was blocking access to all Labour Party (ie, just one of the parties etc) material etc, but they're not... so no bias

As for facebook, a lot of the applications are actually from other sites (poker = zynga etc) so internal looking "applications" are actually considered another site.

Facebook is a bit of a security risk anyway, every time you accept an application to allow access to your data, that is one more place that has your info, and quite a lot of it too at points. I guess it's not their fault that websense blocks it either

There is no blind support here at all no colleges etc, i have to accompany her sometimes, shame she is only 19 yr old and can't access anything, i sometimes even take her shopping etc.