Am i able to refuse weekend work in accordance with my JSAg?

Vader123

Joe_S wrote: »

Thank you Ceridwen, your post has trully motivated me and I trully beleive in the saying "you live by the sword, you die by the sword" and that is why a refuse to be forced into something by some jobsworth. At my 13 weeks interview, I will say I wish to keep the same days and hours in my agreement and the same type of work however if they dont agree to it then I will be reporting to my local CAB further help into getting this matter resolved even if it means going to a tribunal.
The little people shall not be pushed around any longer and I will see to it.

My god.

OP, Ceridwen is known on this board for giving iffy advice.

She won't be there to give inspirational advice when you loose your JSA and wondering where it all went wrong.

Vader

busy_mom_2

What makes you think jobcentre staff don't live in the real world? My office is open 8 - 8 3 nights a week and saturday 8 - 1. And yes staff work those hours. All jobcentre staff recently employed have contracts that state these hours and others who don't work extra hours when needed.
We live a 24hour society, we have private lives and the right to have spare time. There are legal rules regarding when and for how long jobseekers must be preared to work but the word 'reasonable' in the most used. 'resonable' steps to look for work, 'resonable' hours to be available, 'reasonable' job goals. We are reasonable people fact is people don't like being questoned when they are claiming benefits. Once employed you are questioned by an employer, how are we any different? we have a responsibilty that people who are eligble are paid benefit and supported by the tax payer, why should tax payers support those who are clearly lookig for a free ride?

ceridwen

ceridwen wrote: »

You are taking a risk if you do that...and I would be "failing in my duty" if I didnt point this out to you quite clearly. So - deem it duly pointed out. It may come to Tribunal if you do that - and it is not possible to tell how fairminded they would be in advance.

Having said that - I wish you luck.

See first two lines of my post...

AsknAnswer2

It all comes down to reasonability, as others have said. You are willing to work days/evenings/nights - anything but the weekend, and in any job. You have kept an open mind so far in your Jobseeking - you do not appear to have resticted your jobsearch very much; I only see it restricted in that you are unwilling to work weekends. You have a current JSAg which states you will not work weekends - that is the agreement. At some point, a person who has been claiming JSA is expected to widen their jobseach.

The rules of having to widen a jobsearch exist to for people whom have previsouly been able to restrict their jobsearch. People restrict their jobsearch far more than you have. Some do it in such a manner that it would potentially be impossible to secure employment. People with no qualifications expecting 30K salaries in management, who will only work mon - fri 10am to 2pm, and who will only travel within 5 miles to a job. Basically, ridiculous restrictions where they are perfectly aware they are unlikely to find employment.

For the sake of a couple of examples:
take a lady who refuses to work evenings/nights and won't work for an income of less than £10 per hour, as that was what her previous job paid; she also restricts her jobsearch to a field which she is experienced in and simply will not consider a job outside of it. and has also restricted herself to working Mon-Fri, even though she worked a Saturday in her previous job and jobs in her field tend to include weekend working. After a time, she is expected to widen her search criteria. She signs the new JSAg which states she will work any day, any shift for NM wage, because she thinks it will "keep the JCP happy" but decides she will not apply for any job which is outwith her (previous) restrictions. She is referred for a job which is in her field, and is advertised as day time working with a competitive salary. She applies and is offered the position but refuses to accept it because after attending the interview, she finds it includes saturday working. Her reason for not willing to work saturdays is because she began to attend kickboxing classes. The DM would likely decide that working on Saturdays is a reasonable expectation and one which she agreed to in her new JSAg. He also decides that the kickboxing is not a priority, this has been the only job the woman has been offered in 9 months of being on JSA. She has a previous sanction for failing to apply for a job she was referred for because she the wage was £9.50 and this was 50p below her ideal salary. The jobs in her previous sector tend to include weekend working, and in any case she has agreed to work weekends in her new JSAg. He decides the refusal is therefore unreasonable, and sanctions her claim.

Same lady, same previous restrictions but no previous sanctions. Has signed up to a new JSAg which includes weekend working, the lady has a 10 year old daughter and has checked for childcare provision. There is one childcare facility in the area which offers childcare on weekends. In this case, the lady is offered the position but discovers that she is unable to work weekends as there is no childcare provision - the only registered childcare facility in the area which had weekend provision is full to capacity, the last place having been taken up the week before. The lady is a lone parent and although she has family in the area they also work and there can be no guarantee of childcare for every weekend. She contacted the employer about this who stated he was unwilling to be flexible in regard to weekend working. The DM contacts the childcare provider who confirms there are no weekend spots available, and the employer who confirms that he cannot offer flexibility in regard to weekend working. He decides that this is a reasonable refusal as care of the child is a priority. Another new JSAg is drawn up which excludes weekend working.

When looking at a sanction it isn't just the refusal in itself that is looked at. It is previous restrictions you have placed upon jobseeking, any previous sanctions for similar things, your jobseeking history and whether you are likely to secure a job without the restriction you are placing. And the biggie - what is agreed to in the JSAg.

Hope this helps a little. By the way - I am not saying you would not get sanctioned - I am simply providing some extreme examples. The only person who decides on whether a sanction should be imposed is the officer making the decision in each particular case. But there are a lot of positives in your post - your only restriction appears to be no weekend working, it's not a case of you are restricting yourself beyond all reason.

Joe_S

so in short what you are saying is my refusal to work weekends will be denied by the DM? also i would like to apologise to everyone who deemed my posts to be of an erratic manner so i am sorry for that.
Also thanks again to all who have contributed their thoughts to this thread.
Please feel free to post some more insights as i really do appreciate it.
Thank You

Regards

Joe

dookar

Joe_S wrote: »

so in short what you are saying is my refusal to work weekends will be denied by the DM?

Joe, it's all about reasonable prospects. Can you show reasonable prospects of securing employment mon-fri?

Do such vacancies exist where you are prepared to work? Are you qualified and suitable for them?

Bogof_Babe

I'm just gobsmacked that the "job seeker" is allowed to lay down so many conditions. After all, he is living off hand-outs, so not really in a strong bargaining position.

If you do manage to find a job that is weekdays only, and then some emergency crops up and you are asked to come in at the weekend (along with your colleagues) to sort it out, you would have to be extremely confident in your position to refuse. No-one likes working what they personally perceive to be antisocial hours, but in the real world it is often unavoidable.

For what it's worth, I used to go in at weekends unpaid to keep on top of things in busy periods.

I'm sure your hobby is important to you, but if it was that or putting food on your table I think you might have to re-consider your stance.

MissRose

To the OP, if you mention your weekend commitments to any employer, it is up to them, not the dwp, to decide if they can offer you anything that fits in with those hours. If they cannot offer you a position the dwp cannot sanction you.

MissRose

Also for all those about to write a scathing reply, it costs the employer and in ultimate terms the economy to employ the wrong person for the role, with the wrong motivations who will not stay in the position.....

dookar

MissRose wrote: »

To the OP, if you mention your weekend commitments to any employer, it is up to them, not the dwp, to decide if they can offer you anything that fits in with those hours. If they cannot offer you a position the dwp cannot sanction you.

um. Depends.