Is the Recession over then ???

fc123

Cleaver wrote: »

That's a very interesting point. I also feel that we're at a turning point when it comes to consumer stuff, although I'm obviously no expert like you FC.

I think the economy is obviously one factor, but another must be that there are so many other models for a business now rather than just a high street shop. I also get the impression that people are going to get sick of chain stuff soon, but that's just a feeling. I just have a hunch that over the next few years this recession may mean that more people realise that 'stuff' isn't the be all and end all, and that all this uniformity in retail and commerce isn't a good thing. You see it a bit with the banks, and I think people will start to once again yearn for more independant places. But as I say, just a hopeful hunch I guess.

It will be interesting to see whether globalisation and big, worldwide businesses is the future that we all want and get used to, or whether we look back at the noughties as a strange decade when we somehow thought that having 8 million Subways, Tescos, Starbucks, Primarks and Pizza Expresses rather than interesting, local businesses was a good idea.

Absolutely Cleaver....trends tend to go in decades this century and local high streets will morph into something else. As you know, I had to choose which direction to go in....do I give up my label or try to get it to the customer in the way that's suited for now?
If my shop had remained profitable (and by that, it could generate what I wanted to earn....we were not prepared to work all hours for less than a certain profit pa) it would still be open and I wouldn't be doing what I do now.

Personally, I think it was Argos ''that done it'', not Tesco and Asda...they were just the followers. Argos has destroyed more indie shops over the past 20 years than anyone else....and to me, were the beginning of The Clone Life Look. Argos is hugely profitable with zero debt and cash in hand I have heard.
Clone Life Look? B+Q are up there. Clone Way of Eating; Tesco/Asda win hands down....I could go on.

The biggest irony is little people like me are now feted by the corps to bring in something Not Clone. You couldn't make it up really. But the way I work now could make me evolve into clone...does that make sense? because my influences are now different.

Cleaver

nearlynew wrote: »

You're right.

Localisation not globalisation is the coming trend.


But it won't be because "the people" want it. It will be out of necessity.

I would guess that most of the people who frequent those establishments you mention don't know anything different and would like things to just go on and on as they are.

With the first point you may well be right. Now, you just know I'll take issue with the second point Mr New. I know you have a great vision of a shepple-like nation, all trudging zombie-like in to Primark and Starbucks all chanting 'we are sheep, we are sheep', 'debt is wealth, debt is wealth', but I don't think that's the case. I pop in to places like Starbucks on the odd occassion, although I always end up wondering why. 'Normal' people use these places 'cos there's not a lot of alternatives out there, and sometimes just out of habit. Doesn't make them idiots or bad people though.

God, I sound like a f*cking hippie.

fc123

nearlynew wrote: »

You're right.





(I love it when my post is at the top of a page)

Yeahwell...would have been me if I could type quicker

The whole local/global thing isn't going to happen overnight though...I reckon 15 years as car use become more and more expensive (not just petrol cost but insurance, tax and repairs @ UK labour rates) and, I really wish I could type out a chat I had last week...but the vague jist was a puzzlement at how I could achieve the prices I do for such a simple item.

It's to do with detail and fuss and stuff. China labour costs are low and fabric costs are, therefore, fairly high in a garment.....hence a lot of gear out there totally loaded up with trim, detail and a million seams per garment....and all in @ 20 quid retail.
If you make in a higher labour cost area like here, the fabric cost is a far lower proportion plus, as labour cost is high, it's pointless using cheap cloth...so....you get a look very different to 99% of what is out there; cleaner lines (but not basic), better cloth quality and a simpler aesthetic.

People seem to notice the difference as simple in the chains is a basic vest or something.

Cleaver

fc123 wrote: »

Personally, I think it was Argos ''that done it'', not Tesco and Asda...they were just the followers. Argos has destroyed more indie shops over the past 20 years than anyone else....and to me, were the beginning of The Clone Life Look. Argos is hugely profitable with zero debt and cash in hand I have heard.

I've never thought of Argos in that way. But it's a great point as they must have put so many independant places out of business due to them selling allsorts under one roof.

I was reading an article the other week about the idea huge, out of town, uber-massive warehouses opening up on very cheap land. Think they're already doing it in the US. The idea is that you order something from the net, but instead of getting it delivered to your house, it goes to the warehouse (and hundreds of companies use the same warehouses). You then drive there at any time to pick it up. In a strange way it's like a futuristic Argos, and makes sense as it's a complete pain having to try and pick up stuff from the post office when you're a 9-5 worker. But it also sounds just so souless. No shops needed, just the internet and a massive warehouse just off the motorway with a queue of cars and one spotty teenager handing out goods. Bit nightmarish.

fc123

Cleaver wrote: »

With the first point you may well be right. Now, you just know I'll take issue with the second point Mr New. I know you have a great vision of a shepple-like nation, all trudging zombie-like in to Primark and Starbucks all chanting 'we are sheep, we are sheep', 'debt is wealth, debt is wealth', but I don't think that's the case. I pop in to places like Starbucks on the odd occassion, although I always end up wondering why. 'Normal' people use these places 'cos there's not a lot of alternatives out there, and sometimes just out of habit. Doesn't make them idiots or bad people though.

God, I sound like a f*cking hippie.

No you don't...come to Brighton for a weekend, most of us swap between the 2...as most people do....but in Brighton, we do still have a choice.
It's the thing I am going to miss really badly when I move back home.

I mean, if you are at St Pancras waiting for a train and want a coffee, you have a choice of chain......mmmmm ....now which chain get's my £2.09?.......unless you have your flask of course. I will confess to not taking out a flask for 6 months now and I feel I am losing the faith.

FATBALLZ

It should be 'Debate House Prices, The Economy & The upcoming mass public sector cutbacks'.

nearlynew

Cleaver wrote: »

With the first point you may well be right. Now, you just know I'll take issue with the second point Mr New. I know you have a great vision of a shepple-like nation, all trudging zombie-like in to Primark and Starbucks all chanting 'we are sheep, we are sheep', 'debt is wealth, debt is wealth', but I don't think that's the case. I pop in to places like Starbucks on the odd occassion, although I always end up wondering why. 'Normal' people use these places 'cos there's not a lot of alternatives out there, and sometimes just out of habit. Doesn't make them idiots or bad people though.

God, I sound like a f*cking hippie.

With all due respect, you are talking bollox.

Any town big enough to attract starbucks (for example) will be big enough to have lots of other independant cafes/bars. Or should.

Owing to the huge increase in property prices, these massive companies have been able to outbid smaller shops for the best retail space. And then using their muscle have closed them down.


It is nothing less than corporate imperialism and has led to almost every high street in the country looking more or less the same.

I don't call that progress and will be glad to see the back of it.

Cleaver

nearlynew wrote: »

With all due respect, you are talking bollox.

You always have such a pleasant way about you.

fc123

Cleaver wrote: »

I've never thought of Argos in that way. But it's a great point as they must have put so many independant places out of business due to them selling allsorts under one roof.

I was reading an article the other week about the idea huge, out of town, uber-massive warehouses opening up on very cheap land. Think they're already doing it in the US. The idea is that you order something from the net, but instead of getting it delivered to your house, it goes to the warehouse (and hundreds of companies use the same warehouses). You then drive there at any time to pick it up. In a strange way it's like a futuristic Argos, and makes sense as it's a complete pain having to try and pick up stuff from the post office when you're a 9-5 worker. But it also sounds just so souless. No shops needed, just the internet and a massive warehouse just off the motorway with a queue of cars and one spotty teenager handing out goods. Bit nightmarish.

It will happen...and no P/T job for a spotty teen either...it will be self serve and swipe. I will bet someone has worked out 'density of labour' and what have you and a site that serves 10,000 customers can operate with 6 manpower?

Now I will confess here that I love self serve and swipe in the chains as I always feel so uncomfortable replying to 'This Weeks Customer Interreaction' sentence from the nice person serving at the till.......it usually feels so un-genuine as they have to work off the script........and then I get creeped out.
Argos have self pay now and it's fab...I have to confess. All they need is some robot arm pincers to put it on the counter and they could reduce staff costs even more.

Graham_Devon

Cleaver wrote: »

I've never thought of Argos in that way. But it's a great point as they must have put so many independant places out of business due to them selling allsorts under one roof.

I was reading an article the other week about the idea huge, out of town, uber-massive warehouses opening up on very cheap land. Think they're already doing it in the US. The idea is that you order something from the net, but instead of getting it delivered to your house, it goes to the warehouse (and hundreds of companies use the same warehouses). You then drive there at any time to pick it up. In a strange way it's like a futuristic Argos, and makes sense as it's a complete pain having to try and pick up stuff from the post office when you're a 9-5 worker. But it also sounds just so souless. No shops needed, just the internet and a massive warehouse just off the motorway with a queue of cars and one spotty teenager handing out goods. Bit nightmarish.

Lot's of places do this already in essence.

B&Q, Comet, Currys, PC Word, Tesco, Argos, Asda, Mothercare, Boots

Have just listed those off as stores that already offer internet order and store collect.

Don't really see the point much myself, however, I do use it, as cashback sites offer an incentive. Otherwise, I would simply go to the store, as I'm going to have to go there anyway if I want something that day. But as they offer 2% or whatever cashback to order first then collect, I'll use it.