Is the Recession over then ???

dopester

Thanks for the info and offer Cleaver, and fc, for the books (Tescopoly and Shopped). I'll definitely put them on my list to source out and read.

I've just been looking at some review sites of some independent shops we buy from, and for other good independents in the area.

Came up against a blog where people are unhappy/happy about a new Tesco shop which looks positioned to open in the future, in a nearby village. [Edit update: I've just been informed it has been opened a little whilst now.]

http://www.alderleyedge.com/news/article/planned-opening-date-for-tesco-store-revealed/

One of the posts is in the name of a girl who I once sort of knew. She was a few years higher up than me at a school I attended for a while. Her family ran a very upmarket fine bakery/shop in that village, which it seems she now has some involvement with managing. I don't shop there myself but I know quite a few people who hold it in high regard. Even back at school that bakery shop had a reputation for very high quality.

Assuming the response in the blog entry was actually made by her, I think it shows quite a bit of open-minded, fearless and positive calculating on her behalf, to the Tesco competition.

3. Tesco will not force the small shops of Alderley Edge to close, but it will in fact attract more shoppers to the village. A busy place is a good place to trade in, a ghost town is not.

4. The people of Alderley Edge will use this Tesco. Don’t know what you others think but I never rated Somerfields and I will enjoy shopping at Tesco. Which is after all one of our largest national assets.

Also: http://goodfoodshops.blogspot.com/2009/12/alderley-edge-g-wienholt.html

treliac

dopester wrote: »

Came up against a blog where people are unhappy/happy about a new Tescos which looks positioned to open in the future, in a nearby village.

http://www.alderleyedge.com/news/article/planned-opening-date-for-tesco-store-revealed/

We're not talking about your average 'village' here, though. It's Alderley Edge - one of the most prestigious and expensive places in Manchester, let alone the rest of the country.

dopester

treliac wrote: »

We're not talking about your average 'village' here, though. It's Alderley Edge - one of the most prestigious and expensive places in Manchester, let alone the rest of the country.

That may be so Trel lol, but the prospect of a Tesco opening there has had quite a few people concerned about a Tesco opening there.

Possibly some of that could be, what is it called... posh nimbyism against Tesco (?), together with fears that it will hurt independent shops. Having considered other people's opinions, a little Tesco store like that in small village now seems like a good thing to me and I can understand why some traders might not see it as a threat.

Contractors, the Highways Agency, and the council engineers/surveyors are currently building a bypass scheme right around Alderley Edge (funds allocated £52 million pounds - will it come in on budget or not?). They got to work on it about a year ago. Intended to take some of the strain from that busy road which runs through the village.

Quite a few people are worried if it could impact on trade in the village, with less traffic passing through and stopping. I'm not sure. I'd have personally strangled that project, as I doubt the costs will bring anything in economic return - but I guess it's keeping some people in jobs.

I know I’m going to sound like a curmudgeon but having witnessed what’s happened to Macclesfield town centre since it was ‘bypassed’ I’m more than a little nervous.

The Alderley plan is to take 26,000 cars a day away from the centre of the village, which sounds great but how many of those cars have passengers with needs to fulfil and money to spend?

Once those 182,000 cars a week are diverted, Alderley traders are going to need an awful lot of replacement income. I’m sure there will be new customers attracted to the quieter village but will there be enough of them to fill the gap?

Macclesfield town centre now has more vacant shops than at any time in its history.
It’s not all down to the bypass but that was certainly the start of the decline.

Macclesfield is no longer en route to anywhere, customers have to drive into town for a specific purpose; there’s very little impulse spending. Of course it has improved traffic flow around the town but at what cost to local trade?

http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/barlow/s/1062295_hidden_costs_of_the_edge_bypass

bo_drinker

What they need is a local shop for "local people"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOGAAlHzF4o

fc123

dopester wrote: »

That may be so Trel lol, but the prospect of a Tesco opening there has had quite a few people concerned about a Tesco opening there.

Possibly some of that could be, what is it called... posh nimbyism against Tesco (?), together with fears that it will hurt independent shops. Having considered other people's opinions, a little Tesco store like that in small village now seems like a good thing to me and I can understand why some traders might not see it as a threat.

Contractors, the Highways Agency, and the council engineers/surveyors are currently building a bypass scheme right around Alderley Edge (funds allocated £52 million pounds - will it come in on budget or not?). They got to work on it about a year ago. Intended to take some of the strain from that busy road which runs through the village.

Quite a few people are worried if it could impact on trade in the village, with less traffic passing through and stopping. I'm not sure. I'd have personally strangled that project, as I doubt the costs will bring anything in economic return - but I guess it's keeping some people in jobs.

http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/barlow/s/1062295_hidden_costs_of_the_edge_bypass

The bypass could kill of a lot of 'through trade'. It only takes a 15% drop in turnover to kill off a small shop. 15% is nothing and easily lost overnight.

The town may be nicer without the traffic but will then become a destination town.
It takes about 3 years though...according to Blythman.

There used to be a parade if shops in our london suburb that had a slip road that led to them. Very convenient and on the old Rochester Way.

During the late 80's a relief road was built and the whole parade emptied very quickly. I think it has a Happy Shopper type place on it still but nothing else.

I remember trdaing through parking controls and we had a 50% drop in T/O overnight....it did recover after about 2 years and we only survived as we had an offshoot part to the business exporting to Japan. Loads of small traders closed down during that 1st year. I think it was in 92/3?

fc123

lostinrates wrote: »

and the more local indie closures, the harder the time thing gets...it only makes time sence o shop indie for food if the shops ar either close together or en route to somewhere else you have to go. I can't imagine the cost buying indi food shops if not a cook from scratcher. I did a shop at tesco on fri for this weekend though, first big type shop for ages (cooked for 12 today,washed up over 60 glasses :eek:) and the cost horrified me, I almost started laughing nervously.

5 glasses each? :rotfl::rotfl:

When I move back home and will go back to the Asian stores for bags of lentils and spices etc. Farmers market on Sunday for decent bread and meat (not cheaper than Asda but actually worth putting on ones mouth and body) and will probably get a box delivered every 2 weeks.

That should keep my spend in Asda to a minimum.

One of the stupidest things I ever said when the supermkarkets really started going for the clothes in a big way (not Asda as they had been at it for years) was ''My type of customer doesn't dress from Tesco'' and I was right but what I got totally wrong was how the low supermarket prices on clothes would then be benchmarked against us.

The price deflation and customer expectations on price really escalated in about 03/04 as the Primark war had also begun.


Tesco are now selling independent labels and £140 dresses now and the use of the word couture makes me shudder...they should look up the meaning.


From what I have heard supplying them is fantastic as they order huge, + pay on time. Only gossip though.

fc123

3. Tesco will not force the small shops of Alderley Edge to close, but it will in fact attract more shoppers to the village. A busy place is a good place to trade in, a ghost town is not.

I hope she is right about the above but I think it won't happen like that.
Is it likely that more people will visit the town than now just because there is a Tesco?
The worst case is it only increases shopper numbers by a small amount and gobbles up spend (from the convenience POV) from small traders.


It is going to T/O a certain amount and some of that amount will come from the tills of smaller traders. It only has to swipe 15% of gross from each to make things uncomfortable.

If she runs a specialist bakery and patisserie with wedding cake off shoot and sandwiches for example, she is unlikely to be badly affected but others will be so they may have to also become more specialist.

Snooze

fc123 wrote: »

I hope she is right about the above but I think it won't happen like that.
Is it likely that more people will visit the town than now just because there is a Tesco?
The worst case is it only increases shopper numbers by a small amount and gobbles up spend (from the convenience POV) from small traders.


It is going to T/O a certain amount and some of that amount will come from the tills of smaller traders. It only has to swipe 15% of gross from each to make things uncomfortable.

If she runs a specialist bakery and patisserie with wedding cake off shoot and sandwiches for example, she is unlikely to be badly affected but others will be so they may have to also become more specialist.

I very much doubt it will happen like that either. In fact I think they are pretty deluded to think that having a new Tesco on their doorstep is going to be good for their trade. It probably will draw more people there, especially if it's some distance to the next nearest Tesco, but those people will be coming to shop at Tesco only. If they are building a bypass as well as a Tesco then I can guarantee you that Alderley Edge will be ghost town within a few years. Feel free to prove me wrong and show me a town that has thrived from receiving a bypass and a supermarket on their doorstep. I won't hold my breath though.

dopester

fc123 wrote: »

The bypass could kill of a lot of 'through trade'. It only takes a 15% drop in turnover to kill off a small shop. 15% is nothing and easily lost overnight.

The town may be nicer without the traffic but will then become a destination town.
It takes about 3 years though...according to Blythman.

There used to be a parade if shops in our london suburb that had a slip road that led to them. Very convenient and on the old Rochester Way.

During the late 80's a relief road was built and the whole parade emptied very quickly. I think it has a Happy Shopper type place on it still but nothing else.

I remember trdaing through parking controls and we had a 50% drop in T/O overnight....it did recover after about 2 years and we only survived as we had an offshoot part to the business exporting to Japan. Loads of small traders closed down during that 1st year. I think it was in 92/3?

That is pretty interesting fc. So you are very aware how changes either with parking controls, or relief roads, can cause big impacts on many businesses. 15% eh, hmmm.

In 1996 a £100 million bypass opened just up from Alderley Edge. It created new access to Wilmslow and towards Manchester. I was in favour of it. It went on to massively ease the flow and speed of traffic. I don't think the bypass itself hit many independent traders, because it only cut out a few very minor rows of trading shops, but of course it did bring with it other additional effects.

In two locations on that bypass, two sites of land were bought by big stores. A big John Lewis and Sainsburys + petrol station. And a big Marks and Spencers and Tesco + petrol station. These stores contributed a few million pounds to the actual taxpayer costs of building the bypass (about £8 million iirc), in return for roundabouts to be built at two points, allowing them to connect their own access roads to their stores. If you take it to extremes, then yes, it also sped up access to The Trafford Centre way further out. So those big stores have taken people away who used to shop in local places like Wilmslow.

Maybe my view is way too simplistic, like fc and Snooze suggests, to expect them to stop in the village and use a smaller Tesco closerby, allowing other smaller independent shops as they exit to get also better compete for their attention. Maybe it's main hope is it wins through as a quaint 'destination village' (fc's description) for shoppers, when the new Alderley bypass opens in 2011/12.

dopester

Whist I was in favour of the other bypass, if not the big out-of-centre stores built on two sites next to it, I have big issues with the new Alderley bypass they began work on last Spring.

£55 million to ease traffic of that stretch through Alderley Edge village. Unless I've overlooked something, it doesn't seem worth it to me.

Then again I've only continued down through that way, into Alderley Edge and continuing on, just one time. Gets a bit too remote for me beyond there.



There is a big Zeneca Pharmaceuticals a bit further out on the other side of the village, which I suppose the bypass will immediately help employees there get to work quicker, and their delivery vehicles. Some people will be able to get continue past the village to their homes with a bit less congestion - whoopie - I've never known the congestion there to be that bad at all. Then the road continues on to exciting leading to places like Jodrell Bank and is another way down to Stoke on Trent.

The same kind of public works spending that was very productive in the last depression would be a waste today. Lots of new highways, for example, would not pay off as they did in the past. Improvements of highways had a dramatic effect beginning in the 1930s in increasing the number of autos in use and amplifying other activity that depended on autos, like building of suburbs and shopping centres.

There will be much more modest effects today. The number of autos in use is not likely to go up no matter how many roads are built. Congestion can be much more efficiently handled by peak-load pricing than by pouring concrete.

It seems to me the mindset of improving the system, with a £52 million bypass around a village, which might maybe cut 15 minutes from a journey through a village at peak times... is taking things way too far when the success of independent businesses within such villages originally came from the main existing road. Unless they can reinvent themselves somehow and maybe become destination villages.

Overall does the extra speed/time saved in traffic flow with such a new £52m bypass (also the maintanence of it into the future) help the cities and the industrial estates elsewhere profit that much, by cars and lorries saving just a little time through a small village? Too much efficiency can be damaging imo.