Want to change from Halifax S&S Isa, options???

dgaf

JamesU wrote: »

But do you happen to know if you have the option to sell a fund in your Halifax S+S online with the proceeds held as cash within the ISA? Or would you be obliged to simply switch to a different fund? Or if you sell the fund and do not switch to a different fund, do the cash proceeds go to a bank account etc (hence the cash looses the tax wrapper). It is quite important know which of the above is possible. If you are not certain by looking at your options on-line, you should give the rep another ring and clarify this.
JamesU

I have had a look online and it only gives me the option to change the funds only. It says: CHANGE YOUR FUNDS

• I wish to switch my existing funds and future contributions
• I wish to redirect only my future contributions

then if I select the first of the above options it goes to: PORTFOLIO OR SELF SELECT FUNDS?

• Portfolio (We offer a variety of portfolios that have been designed
  to reflect different attitudes to risk and potential reward)
• Self Select (You choose what funds you'd like to invest in yourself)

it does not say anything about selling and holding the cash within the ISA. I will speak to Halifax tomorrow and clarify this.
I have been looking at HL online and they have a lot of funds to choose from, would I be able to select something where I choose the risk profile and they choose the investment for me.
Also would I have to keep an eye on it myself or do they manage it for me? If I choose to select my own funds with HL, how often would I have to keep an eye on the investments (i think its called re-balancing portfolio) sorry I'm new to this fund buying business. Buying individual shares is much easier in my limited experience!

david78 wrote: »

HL will manage the transfer for you. Just phone them and tell them what you want to do.
Switches are done online by selling and buying. Sales are free. Purchases are subject to the initial charge less the discount. There are many funds where the discount equals the initial charge so these can be purchased for free.
You can set up and manage regular payments from your account online or by post if you prefer.

Cheers for that will speak to them tomorrow after I have clarified with Halifax.

JamesU

dgaf wrote: »

I have had a look online and it only gives me the option to change the funds only. It says: CHANGE YOUR FUNDS

• I wish to switch my existing funds and future contributions
• I wish to redirect only my future contributions

then if I select the first of the above options it goes to: PORTFOLIO OR SELF SELECT FUNDS?

• Portfolio (We offer a variety of portfolios that have been designed
  to reflect different attitudes to risk and potential reward)
• Self Select (You choose what funds you'd like to invest in yourself)

it does not say nothing about selling and holding the cash within the ISA. I will speak to Halifax tomorrow and clarify this.
I have been looking at HL online and they have a lot of funds to choose from, would I be able to select something where I choose the risk profile and they choose the investment for me.
Also would I have to keep an eye on it myself or do they manage it for me? If I choose to select my own funds with HL, how often would I have to keep an eye on the investments (i think its called re-balancing portfolio) sorry I'm new to this fund buying business. Buying individual shares is much easier in my limited experience!

Cheers for that will speak to them tomorrow after I have clarified with Halifax.

Yes this is what I suspected, there does not seem to be the option to sell under control of price at next day valuation point and then hold the cash within the ISA tax wrapper. Give them a ring to clarify this so that you know what your options are. Post the result, two questions: (i) can you sell a fund and hold the cash in the ISA? (ii) if instructions received from ISA provider can units in funds be transferred to them, or do they have to be sold and the cash transferred?

Then I would suggest you stop, take a breather and re-evaluate your options and preferences. Switching from the Halifax to another provider and managing your own investments needs to be considered very carefully should you decide you want to do this.

JamesU

dgaf

JamesU wrote: »

Not sure what you are asking here altogether......

Dgaf, one step at a time. I have been through these exact procedures over the last couple of months for somebody with funds at Halifax similar to yours and have a clear picture on what can be done at the Halifax end and also on HL's side. There is no problem with HL at all, the problems are with the horrendous inflexibility at the Halifax end and you need to clarify the things discussed in the last post before deciding on what you want to do.

Hope this helps.
JamesU

Thats a great help indeed, especially if you have been through similar yourself. OK one step at a time, IL transfer first, just wanted to know if I could carry on paying my monthly contribution to HL to buy more funds?

JamesU wrote: »

And do not be put off if Halifax reps start to discuss transferring your exisiting funds from class C to class F as an enticement to stay, it is a minor reduction in fund fee from 1.5% to 1.25% (excepting corporate bond fund which probably would not change), and 1% on top of these for the Halifax ISA wrapper, so fees still quite high. And as soon as the fund exceeds £25K, you would be entitled to these lower fees anyway.

JamesU

No vested interests, I am not a financial advisor or financial expert.

You been bugging my calls to the Halifax or what, thats exactly what the rep started to discuss, transferring to a different class of fund.
She tried to confuse me with the charges too, by saying its only 0.0015% a day, but soon backed off when I said to her her savings dept don't market their rates on savings products like that, and that 0.0015 works out to 5.5% annually.
Can I ask you why you moved to HL, did you find HL charges more competitive or was it for more of a choice in funds you can invest in?

dgaf

JamesU wrote: »

Post the result, two questions: (i) can you sell a fund and hold the cash in the ISA? (ii) if instructions received from ISA provider can units in funds be transferred to them, or do they have to be sold and the cash transferred?JamesU

OK Il post what they say tomorrow (later on Today) to the above two questions. Thanks for clarifying what I have to ask them.

Then I would suggest you stop, take a breather and re-evaluate your options and preferences. Switching from the Halifax to another provider and managing your own investments needs to be considered very carefully should you decide you want to do this.

I should of opted out of the Halifax S&S Isa myself a long time ago but thought they were managing it for me but the returns are not very good, I've done better out of my cash Isa. Never mind I only have myself to blame. I will be switching, just have to decide what to, managed or self select.

I hold a few shares but not in a Isa, I buy and sell them through the share centre, don't really trade mostly buy and hold for attractive dividends (BP,BAT,NG,TSCO for example) while the savings account rates are not too attractive.

dgaf

JamesU wrote: »

Give them a ring to clarify this so that you know what your options are. Post the result, two questions:
JamesU

I have spoken to Halifax today, and put across the two questions:

Q.

(i) can you sell a fund and hold the cash in the ISA?

A. I can not sell the funds and hold the cash in the ISA, if I sold any of the funds, then the money would be paid out to me.

Q.

(ii) if instructions received from ISA provider can units in funds be transferred to them, or do they have to be sold and the cash transferred?

A. The units in funds can not be transfered to another ISA provider, the funds would be sold and the cash transfered to the new ISA provider.

Hope that clarifies what you needed to know.

JamesU

dgaf wrote: »

Hope that clarifies what you needed to know.

Yes these Q+A’s are what I expected to hear. When I saw your posting, frustratingly I could see this happening and thought I would save you a little time and agony with the specific Q+A’s. In summary:


(i)You can only sell your funds with reasonable control of the fund sale prices (next day valuation) if you either switch to another Halifax fund within the ISA (presumably not your objective) or receive the cash and loose the tax wrapper on this money. Reason? Halifax does not allow you to hold cash “on account” inside the ISA.

(ii)You cannot transfer the Halifax funds to another provider. Reason? Halifax does not allow “in specie” transfer of the units in the fund to another provider.

(iii)You can instruct a new ISA provider to request transfer of your S+S ISA to them from the Halifax, but the new provider will receive this as cash within the new ISA and not the units held in the funds. In the case of Hargreaves Lansdowne you could actually re-buy the Halifax funds within their ISA but there would be little point (see previous thread above detailing HL requiring fees of 0.5%/mth on these until annual fee cap reached, objective is to switch to better funds with a lower cost base etc).

The logistics are at least clearer now. You can decide on a new provider and request the transfer of cash equivalent from the sale of all or some of the Halifax funds and then buy new funds. The only limitation is the time factor. When the new provider requests transfer of all or part of the Halifax funds as a cash transfer, Halifax will indeed sell the funds and transfer the cash. But you will have no control over the timing and price when the funds are sold. If market conditions fluctuate wildly during this period you could make a loss or gain during this twilight period. It could be days or a couple of weeks depending on how quickly the new provider requests the transfer from Halifax and how quickly Halifax acts internally. However if you decide you want to close down your Halifax ISA and transfer the cash within the tax wrapper to the new provider, this is probably the best option you have. Others reading this thread may have another option I have not considered.

Various Halifax funds “have done quite well recently” as have many other funds. I do not know whether or not your funds are income or accumulation, but in general, for example in the case of your Halifax UK equity and UK growth funds, between 2005 and 2008 they appreciated in value by approx 30%, then by March 2009 they dropped below 2005 values, but have since recovered in value to 2008 (but not 2007) levels. You have some decisions to make but at least the logistics are clearer now and your funds have recovered from their lost gains by at least 25% since March 2009.

Easter is nearly upon us, but one other point to consider. If you have plans to move from the Halifax to another provider, you might find you prefer two new ISA providers. One for funds (e.g. HL) and another that is more cost effective for holding your dividend shares/any future plans with etfs (exchange traded funds) etc, where HL is less cost effective for holding these. Depending on what you plan to do, just a thought in terms of forward planning.

A long thread, welcome to the world of Halifax S+S ISAs. In fairness they are a starting point for many people despite any poor fund performance, high annual fees and the inflexibility to lock in gains. The inability to hold "cash on account" or do an "in specie" transfer with the ISA also limit the contol and flexibility one has later on with the investments. But as above, there is an exit strategy albeit with a few compromises. But before jumping you should be sure you are confident to leave the Halifax S+S ISA behind, and know how you want to operate your investments in the future. That is a personal choice and decision to make (IFA? managed? ISA providers? DIY? MSE? etc).

JamesU

danm

I don't think you have been paying 5.5% charges in total

they are not additive.

I invest £1000 in fund A @ 1% management fee = £10
I invest £1000 in fund B @ 2% management fee = £20

so in total paid £30 on £2000 which is 1.5%

as your corporate fund is around half your total, rough calc would be about 1.25% for your total holding

JamesU

danm wrote: »

I don't think you have been paying 5.5% charges in total

they are not additive.

I invest £1000 in fund A @ 1% management fee = £10
I invest £1000 in fund B @ 2% management fee = £20

so in total paid £30 on £2000 which is 1.5%

as your corporate fund is around half your total, rough calc would be about 1.25% for your total holding

Danm, yes, you are right they are not additive at all, but I did not see the point in explaining this in detail when discussing the complexities of a possible exit strategy. The way the charges work at the Halifax (for class C units) are 1.5% management fee on a typical fund and then an additonal 1% on top for the ISA wrapper, 2.5% total. Certainly the case for the UK growth and UK equity, probably the others too, did not bother to check as this is usually the case. Fees go down to 1.25% when investing in excess of £25K as they are switched to class F units with lower fees. But 2.5% out of funds growth year on year is significant and one reason why there is a low return over time on the poorer performing funds (especially the infamous Cautious Managed C fund).

Hope this clarifies better.

JamesU

dgaf

JamesU

Thank you so much for all your help, it has really cleared things up that I was unsure about.

I will be speaking to HL next week after the holidays regarding the Transfer of the S&S ISA funds (cash) to them. Also I can ask them what is suitable for my objectives.

I have been looking at the Fund choices on HL's website, and there are many to choose from. I have more homework to do, but I take it if I don't want to actively manage the S&S ISA myself I should choose a Multi-manager funds or the Vantage S&S Isa.

If do go down the self manage route, I am looking at medium risk, long term growth (hopefully!) funds, but then how much time would be required to manage the funds (i think its called portfolio re-balance), I suppose its a case of 'how long is a piece of string'.

I will also read up on this forum and see what other posters are doing in a similar situation, and whats the logical next step up.
Decisions, decisions, decisions :think:

Once again thanks for your help regarding the Halifax bit, much appreciated

JamesU

dgaf wrote: »

JamesU

Thank you so much for all your help, it has really cleared things up that I was unsure about.

I will be speaking to HL next week after the holidays regarding the Transfer of the S&S ISA funds (cash) to them. Also I can ask them what is suitable for my objectives.

I have been looking at the Fund choices on HL's website, and there are many to choose from. I have more homework to do, but I take it if I don't want to actively manage the S&S ISA myself I should choose a Multi-manager funds or the Vantage S&S Isa.

If do go down the self manage route, I am looking at medium risk, long term growth (hopefully!) funds, but then how much time would be required to manage the funds (i think its called portfolio re-balance), I suppose its a case of 'how long is a piece of string'.

Il will also read up on this forum and see what other posters are doing in a similar situation, and whats the logical next step up.
Decisions, decisions, decisions :think:

Once again thanks for your help regarding the Halifax bit, much appreciated

I am not too familiar with the managed options at HL, others may be able to advise better than I can. However, I really do think it would be a good idea for you to take proper advice on your selections in the first instance at least. And maybe post a thread asking for others for their opinion on the advice that HL give?

JamesU