Hilarious! People in my area are increasing their asking price!

Harry_Powell

dopester wrote: »

The deflation threat is still very real Harry. Don't lash out at me because you've recently bought a house and perhaps my position on house prices unnerves you.

Old? Does it really matter on a forum, where we're exchanging views?

Frightened? Yes, I am somewhat fearful of what the future holds. Quite a few people here are acting like it's full on glory days ahead with very little to be concerned about. I suppose makes you a young and happy man? :whistle:

It's also sad to put yourself in a crisis-prone position in my opinion, with a lot of mortgage debt to pay over the odds for a house, when there are great pressures on the system. Being cautious and choosing to wait and not massively overpay for a home is my position and if you want to attack me for it, it doesn't bother me.

If my outlook is wrong, then I will probably pay a price for being wrong won't I. It could be I pay even if I'm right.. the bubble deflating taking many of the innocents and people who didn't get involved with fuelling the bubble down with it.

I'm not lashing out Dopester, and I'm very happy with my house purchase, it's certainly better than renting and I'm not overly extended financially and we have two good incomes coming in (both myself and GF in secure jobs and neither of us want kids, so no excessive outgoings expected either).

I think my problem is the way you dole out advice without knowing a thing about an individual's circumstances. Case in point was the way you lashed out at me, making it look as though I was on the verge of financial ruin when the reverse is actually true, I'm doing very well out of this recession, thanks to a HPC and desperate seller when I bought at the bottom of the market and then a lot of desperate workmen to help me renovate the house at pretty much cost price (plus lots of sales for building material and household items) .

Through the 40 and more years of home ownership that I have before me, I will see lots of recessions, house price crashes and various economic and political turmoil, but what would you have me do, hide in a concrete bunker in the New Forest until my life is over and I'm safe and snug in my grave?

When would you have people buy their houses Dopester, during a boom when everyone is jumping on the bandwaggon and prices are sky high and when everyone thinks the good times will never end, or do they do what I did and buy in the depth of a recession when houseprices are low and when people are more careful and realistic about their income and therefore less likely to overextend themselves financially when they buy?

Most bad things can be insured against with income protection and life/critical illness, buildings & contents insurance, decent amount of savings and then bulding up a good LTV on your mortgage via overpayments.

Regardless of whatever the government do or what happens with the economy, we have to continue to live our lives. We don't have long on this earth and I for one don't intend to waste it sitting in a dark corner shivering for fear and worrying about the whole host of things from job loss to Alien Abduction that may opr may not happen to me.

From the posts I've seen you make dopester, I think you may be suffering from depression and/or anxiety and think you should speak to your doctor about it.

dopester

Harry_Powell wrote: »

Case in point was the way you lashed out at me, making it look as though I was on the verge of financial ruin when the reverse is actually true, I'm doing very well out of this recession, thanks to a HPC and desperate seller when I bought at the bottom of the market and then a lot of desperate workmen to help me renovate the house at pretty much cost price (plus lots of sales for building material and household items) .

a) Harry, I was not suggesting you are on the verge of financial ruin. I don't happen to agree with you that you've called the bottom of the market - on a 5 year view. That is my opinion which I'm entitled to, and which you hold your own view about. It is good that you have not overly stretched your financial position in buying.

You find it better than renting, which I understand, but continuing to rent doesn't have to be the end of the world for some people either, or the equivalent of hiding out in a bunker. Renting can keep open many valuable options, due to shifting changes in jobs, job mobility, and the outlook for house prices as some people view it. In your own way you are also 'doling out advice' on the side of buying. Fair enough, as there are many people who agree with buying now if all things match up.

b) I haven't ordered Lydia into anything but presented alternative views. It isn't like I haven't learned something of her situation and views she's given on the forums (which I often agree with) during the past 18 months. I don't post down to her although maybe my last post was slightly designed to put some doubt and fear into it. Lydia knows what I'm like anyway. She was able to shrug it off in a nice way, seemingly having made her decision, and knowing it's me, I doubt she took affront in the way you seem to have done with my post to her.

And, because there is a very kind and balanced member here who cares for people like Lydia, and can see my own views as not being deliberately hurtful and knowing I can be trusted... I was sensitively briefed by PM with some background information put forward more logic for why she wants to buy now. My thoughts are with her, wanting the best for her and her children - not against her.

Partly I went for a final attempt at perhaps hoping she'd delay her buying - that isn't out of spite or wanting wrong for her, but from my pov, wanting good for her. I don't want her to end up in the position her friend at work is in, having not thought all aspects of the buying decision through. I now know Lydia goes into buying knowing the most of the risks (price / economy wise) and therefore my conscience is clear, and hopefully she doesn't hold any ill will against me for presenting possible alternative downside risks.

LydiaJ wrote: »

Or what about a friend of mine at work. He has a house he can't sell. The developers have dropped prices for similar houses on the same estate, not just below the price he paid, but below the level of his mortgage. His work, his wife's work, and his son's school are all now miles and miles away from their home, but they can't move.

c) There is little point biting on your hook about depression/doctor. A bit crude and unnecessary. Whilst I might not like the situation that's been allowed to develop with house prices and the boom in debt, and often make that clear, I'm very comfortable with my own finances thank you. After the election the advice will be to not bother the doctors with such minor complaints as they can't afford the resources. And in the current time, if it were a queue for the Doctor, Hamish and a few others must be fast-tracked to see the Doctor before me. (Just joking Hamish - I like your commitment to your arguments, even if I don't agree.)

LydiaJ

dopester wrote: »

I haven't ordered Lydia into anything but presented alternative views. It isn't like I haven't learned something of her situation and views she's given on the forums (which I often agree with) during the past 18 months. I don't post down to her although maybe my last post was slightly designed to put some doubt and fear into it. Lydia knows what I'm like anyway. She was able to shrug it off in a nice way, seemingly having made her decision, and knowing it's me, I doubt she took affront in the way you seem to have done with my post to her.

And, because there is a very kind and balanced member here who cares for people like Lydia, and can see my own views as not being deliberately hurtful and knowing I can be trusted... I was sensitively briefed by PM with some background information put forward more logic for why she wants to buy now. My thoughts are with her, wanting the best for her and her children - not against her.

Partly I went for a final attempt at perhaps hoping she'd delay her buying - that isn't out of spite or wanting wrong for her, but from my pov, wanting good for her. I don't want her to end up in the position her friend at work is in, having not thought all aspects of the buying decision through. I now know Lydia goes into buying knowing the most of the risks (price / economy wise) and therefore my conscience is clear, and hopefully she doesn't hold any ill will against me for presenting possible alternative downside risks.

Indeed I didn't take any affront at dopester's post. The whole point of posting on here is to get a range of opinions to broaden my outlook beyond what my brain can come up with on its own. And I took it at face value, too, as motivated by concern for me. How could I hold ill will against someone for wanting me to have a full picture of the possibilities before making the most expensive purchase of my life?

dopester - I'm not going to end up like my friend, because I won't have a mortgage. I'll have a small loan from the bank of mum and dad, and apart from that I'll own the house outright - a lovely house, of the size I want and in the area I want, at a stage in my life where I want to settle down for many years. I won't end up in NE, or unable to sell if I want to move, and the BOMAD won't repossess whatever happens to my jobs. So the worst risk I run is that if prices crash, it may become apparent that I could have got the house for less money if I'd waited - ie that I would have had money left over out of my life insurance pot instead of putting it all into the house. It's a risk I'm happy to take. In my head that life insurance pot has never been intended to cover anything other than house, so I'm fine with that.

nollag2006

LydiaJ wrote: »

Indeed I didn't take any affront at dopester's post. The whole point of posting on here is to get a range of opinions to broaden my outlook beyond what my brain can come up with on its own. And I took it at face value, too, as motivated by concern for me. How could I hold ill will against someone for wanting me to have a full picture of the possibilities before making the most expensive purchase of my life?

dopester - I'm not going to end up like my friend, because I won't have a mortgage. I'll have a small loan from the bank of mum and dad, and apart from that I'll own the house outright - a lovely house, of the size I want and in the area I want, at a stage in my life where I want to settle down for many years. I won't end up in NE, or unable to sell if I want to move, and the BOMAD won't repossess whatever happens to my jobs. So the worst risk I run is that if prices crash, it may become apparent that I could have got the house for less money if I'd waited - ie that I would have had money left over out of my life insurance pot instead of putting it all into the house. It's a risk I'm happy to take. In my head that life insurance pot has never been intended to cover anything other than house, so I'm fine with that.

Good for you Lydia that you've finally decided to make the jump, like so many others.

If you listened to half the doomongers on here, I don't think any of us would ever get out of bed

:rotfl:

LydiaJ

Thanks nollag.

I wouldn't say I'd finally decided to jump though. More a case of an unexpected change of circumstances that suddenly made buying possible when previously I'd been priced out.

Graham_Devon

Most people simply don't have propertybee installed.

It isn't happening so much where I am. But what I do see on the rare occasion I window shop on property bee is the house is taken off the market, and then put back on for a higher price.

There is 2 ugly looking monstrosities of a house that have been on the market ever since I bought this place in 2006. I only know because I got lost right outside them when first looking for the place I have and they were up for sale.

They were up for 275, both next door to each other when I moved in. They fell to around 190 that I actually saw. They are now back up to 230 at the present time.

Property bee however does not list all the changes, it lists a couple, then the house is taken down and put back up for sale agin.

They seemed to follow the market down quite well, but are following it up quite well too.

buglawton

Perhaps the real price indicator can be measured by following the asking price for non-selling properties over the years - it's a measure of seller optimism at least!

In a similar way that economists measure the 'true cost of living' by the relative prices of Big Macs in various countries.

Harry_Powell

Dopester.. Lydia's response:

LydiaJ wrote: »

dopester - I'm not going to end up like my friend, because I won't have a mortgage. I'll have a small loan from the bank of mum and dad, and apart from that I'll own the house outright - a lovely house, of the size I want and in the area I want, at a stage in my life where I want to settle down for many years. I won't end up in NE, or unable to sell if I want to move, and the BOMAD won't repossess whatever happens to my jobs. So the worst risk I run is that if prices crash, it may become apparent that I could have got the house for less money if I'd waited - ie that I would have had money left over out of my life insurance pot instead of putting it all into the house. It's a risk I'm happy to take. In my head that life insurance pot has never been intended to cover anything other than house, so I'm fine with that.

is incompatible with your statement:

dopester wrote: »

b) I haven't ordered Lydia into anything but presented alternative views. It isn't like I haven't learned something of her situation and views she's given on the forums (which I often agree with) during the past 18 months. I don't post down to her although maybe my last post was slightly designed to put some doubt and fear into it.

Clearly your advice is based on your own fears, not on anything to do with Lydia's situation, finances, life aims & goal or indeed anything else, which was pretty much my whole point about the way you dole out your frightening posts as 'advice', when they are anything but.

dopester

Thanks Lydia. I also intended to post I consider you to be pretty open-minded, and doubt I've even come close to testing your limits; given it's just a forum, that you know I'm slightly on the tinfoil-hat side, and my own view of you being quite a trooper where it would take very much more to raise your annoyance levels.

Harry, it wasn't incompatible. I do fully recall the finance side of the home purchase requiring no mortgage. I clearly remember the thread she started outlining how the change in circumstance leading to having those funds in her name to be in a position to buy a home without a mortgage was... unexpected.

Sorry to drag you into this again Lydia, and I'm risking expanding on a couple more of my cautionary reasons against buying now with this response to Harry. Please feel free not to pay them much mind if you've already considered them.

Harry, can you drop this soon? You're really annoyed with me aren't you. I'll concede you may have a point (about my position being based on my own fears), but then I can suspect you are also comforted by those who are readily willing to buy at these levels. It's a forum with different views. You may genuinely think you bought at the bottom of the market and people buying now aren't at much risk of losing much and that it's a good thing for many - I disagree.

The other point you've isolated as being incompatible with learning something of her situation and views: "don't want her to end up in a similar position to her friend at work having not thought all aspects of the buying decision through.."

Yes. broad stokes there. Unlike her friends who have a mortgage and who seem to be in negative equity, I realise Lydia would be in a much superior position with capital to buy the home, no mortgage, and any further borrowings coming from a family source. My focus was more on jobs, capital values in quite a short-term timeframe, and being able to move, for instance if the main job opportunities are quite some distance away (as like her friends' position).

She has since responded by saying she wouldn't be unable to sell if she wanted to move. Obviously not, but I have to point out the value she could hope to command and then receive would depend on what the conditions in any future market come the time if she ever wanted to sell. What those future market conditions are going to be like divides quite a few of us on the forum.

dopester

And: with a General Election coming up, more cuts will be coming afterwards whoever gets in, in my opinion. I'm sorry if you see that as part of my doling out 'frightening posts'. Only this morning one newspaper article I read was attacking Labour for pumping out money to keep the bad times coming, and delaying the cuts right up to the General Election.

The Tories claim that Alistair Darling's Budget, widely criticised for putting off spending cuts until after polling day, has damaged Labour.

Private Labour polls on the reaction to the Budget have produced the same response.

And John Major's damning piece again this morning doesn't suggest that cuts are going to be avoided.

Bomad might not repossess but even Lydia says, "whatever happens to my jobs". That would indicate accepts there is the possibility a change in circumstances with employment - or maybe Lydia was just sensibly viewing very worst case scenarios with the knowledge that very few people's jobs are guaranteed.

I'm not stating any such upcoming cuts in public spending would have any affect on Lydia, but even a non-mortgage house requires quite a bit of income to run, without gradually falling into debt. I wouldn't bank on many of the benefit fallback schemes being as generous as they are now, into the future, even if quite a few people accept them as permanent parts of their reality - but that is just my opinion.

I was weighing up possible real advantages of waiting a bit longer to buy. Now I accept that the person involved has considered them and is happy to proceed with buying, and I concede, all things considered - including not being messed around by landlords - Lydia may be correct to buy now.

Especially if I'm wrong, which I could be. Even with spending cuts to come, and other significant changes, maybe house prices will defy my logic, and prove your belief you have bought at 'the bottom of the market' recent house purchase.