silver price manipulation whistle blower assassination attempt

RDB

Really2 wrote: »

Sorry Mr Sell one coin on ebay? (read your own posts you hardly come across as mr trader)

How much are you looking to buy. As long as you buy them one at a time you would not get charged vat (Under £18 per shipment)

Have a chat with someone who is not a qualified accountant on VAT as I can't be @rssed to rescue you any more.:mad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value-Added-Tax-free_imports_from_the_Channel_Islands

Calling me Uneducated and a fool just shows how ignorant you are of the whole VAT system

Get yourself a nice silver backed mirror as you are the one who is so wrong.

Really2 can we at least agree that 2nd hand silver is about the same price as new silver with VAT on top?

My point is you dont pay 17.5% on top and then have to wait until it goes up 17.5% before you make a profit.

In the UK the price of new silver with VAT is about what you can sell it for.

Can we at least agree on that?

RDB

RDB wrote: »

Really2 can we at least agree that 2nd hand silver is about the same price as new silver with VAT on top?

My point is you dont pay 17.5% on top and then have to wait until it goes up 17.5% before you make a profit.

In the UK the price of new silver with VAT is about what you can sell it for.

Can we at least agree on that?

Oh and we are getting very close to 1 oz being over the limit for vat free importing. Another few weeks of price going up as it has been and thats it for vat free 1oz coins.

Really2

RDB wrote: »

Really2 can we at least agree that 2nd hand silver is about the same price as new silver with VAT on top?

My point is you dont pay 17.5% on top and then have to wait until it goes up 17.5% before you make a profit.

In the UK the price of new silver with VAT is about what you can sell it for.

Can we at least agree on that?

No because it is not. Give me a link where companies are prepaired to pay more than £15.86oz (that is the £13.50 ink VAT) for second hand silver.

You asked for A link to prove second hand silver was cheaper and ignored it.
http://www.cooksongold.com/metalprices/

Scrap silver is £9.95oz

You are mugging your self off if you think you can buy silver in bulk then sell it with VAT on top when you are not VAT registered I proved that on your coin senario today and the ingot.

Who exactly will buy £10K+ of silver from someone not VAT registered for the same price as new.

If they can not reclaim VAT they are paying 17.5% over market price as they have to add VAT to resell it.

Unless you think VAT is some kind of magic merry go round where people make 17.5% every time they sell something.

Why can't you understand the basics of VAT?

It's up to you what you invest in but you really need to get your head around VAT.

Bold Bit
I will only agree if it is paper silver (not held) from a vault service, but you have not talked about such schemes just held silver.

Really2

Ill do you a little VAT non VAT senario

Company buys something from a non VAT reg person for £11.75.
They sell at £15+VAT so they make £3.75 = £17.67 (£3.25 profit Vat liability £2.67)

They buy off a VAT registered seller for £11.75 inc VAT (£10 ex VAT)
They sell at £15+VAT so they make £5 = £17.67 (£5 profit VAT liability £0.92 because you collected £1.75 VAT earlier)

What you are saying is they would pay you £11.75 for your second hand silver.
If they did that to sell at the same cost as new they would have to make only £3.25 to Sell at £15+VAT
If they buy VAT reg new they make £5 profit.

harryhound

From Hatton Garden Metals:
£ 0.30 per gram (925 silver)
Higher rates than advertised are available for VAT registered customers that send in Hallmarked goods only.

MrEnglish

Im no V.A.T expert but heres my 2p worth from my experience.

I have been getting advice years ago where is the best place to buy and sell silver in the UK?

The best advice right now is -

Silver Bullion: BE CAREFUL!!!!! Don't sell to Coin Shops or cash for Bullion Buyers!!

All these companies cash for bullion, they know prices are going way higher. They know there are shortages.

Its actually very very easy to sell bullion because more and more people are trying to buy and yes you can sell for more than the dealers sell who charge V.A.T on top. These days people like the privacy of buying private instead of from a dealer where they record their personal details.

So Im sorry to disagree with you Really2 maybe you know more about the complexities of V.A.T than I do. But in this case with silver bullion the truth is you can easily sell your bullion with no V.A.T for more than what you paid including V.A.T.

I have just done some comparisons myself. Its easy to compare the prices of new silver bullion to buying the same thing private where there is no V.A.T and the prices are very similar.

NEW with V.A.T from your company you quoted 1kg silver bullion bar

http://www.cooksongold.com/Gold-and-Silver-Bars/-Alloy=Silver_Bars/&prdsearch=y

Net Price £507.16
Postage & Packing £11.50
VAT £90.77
Total Price £609.43

2nd hand private sale no V.A.T £797.00 Postage £6.49 same bar no V.A.T but over £200 more.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FINE-SILVER-BAR-1kg-investment-collector-gift-/170128967390?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Coins_Bullion_Bars_SM&hash=item279c7a06de#ht_500wt_956

Thats silver bullion Im interested in, not sure about scrap silver. I stay away from it myself.

Is the scrap silver you are talking about REALLY2 the same as silver shot? like this
https://www.ukbullion.co.uk/productDetails/391
Or is it more like silver nuggets? How can you test it? The usual electric or acid test wouldnt work because you would have to test each tiny nugget!

RDB

Really2 wrote: »

You asked for A link to prove second hand silver was cheaper and ignored it.
http://www.cooksongold.com/metalprices/

Scrap silver is £9.95oz

You are mugging your self off if you think you can buy silver in bulk then sell it with VAT on top when you are not VAT registered I proved that on your coin senario today and the ingot.

.

Lets take a closer look at that coin senario and the ingot and see what point has been proven.

The company selling the ingot has now said demand outstripping supply

>>Apologies Demand has Out-Stripped Supply<<
http://www.sarniasilver.com/

and you know thats worth less than a maple leaf.

Now lets see what point was proven with your maple leaf example

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2009-Silver-Bullion-Maple-1oz-Tower-Bridge-Privy-/280361866322?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Coins_Bullion_Bars_SM&hash=item4146de9452#ht_3383wt_893

Oh about the same price as buying new and paying VAT, fancy that.

Total price as I said about £23 (they always make a bit on postage).

Thanks for proving me right :rotfl:

Take bullionbypost.com as an example. This is for 1 silver maple leaf.

http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/silver-coins/canadian/canadian-maple-1oz-silver-coin/

QTY Net* VAT* Gross*
1+ £19.49 £3.41 £22.90

You pay £22.90 for a brand new one including VAT.

If you wanted to sell it on ebay you will get something like 23 - 25 quid for it, but you dont have to pay VAT because its now 2nd hand.

harryhound

So have we established that silver coins and ingots are being stuffed under the floor boards by the wealthy of the country.
As they are expecting a mixture of inflation and crippling CGT on illusory increases in value measured in a depreciating fiat currency.

??

RDB

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Not only do they have to pay VAT on them, meaning an instant 17.5% loss against real value,

And even with today's little bounce, Gold still outperformed by any one of a basket of currencies.

Gold may well climb for a bit yet, but it won't outperform more credible and useful commodities and it will crash this year.

100% guaranteed.

Hamish you are wrong about an instant 17.5% loss against real value with buying new silver. Once you buy it with VAT, that is then what its worth if you sell it in the open market. But if you sell it to someone 2nd hand you dont have to pay VAT.

I have some more examples to show the private silver market and the new silver market with VAT are about the same, usually if you buy new and pay VAT you can sell for more and not have to VAT. In the private market prices are more with no VAT involved. It must be the shortages of silver all over the world.

This is for all those who think that if you buy silver you have to wait for 17.5% gain before you make a profit.

Private market dont need to pay VAT these 1kg Metalor bars are all around £600 to £700. This is a private sale no one knows you are buying silver.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SILVER-BULLION-BAR-1KG-32-OZ-1000-GRAMS-NEW-SWISS-MADE-/280504289148?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Coins_Bullion_Bars_SM&hash=item414f5bc77c#ht_2179wt_1165

To buy the same bar new you have to pay VAT and the Government now knows you are buying silver bullion.

QTY Net* VAT* Gross*
1+ £490 £85.75 £575.75

http://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/silver-bars/1kg-silver-bar/metalor-1-kg-silver-bar/


Its basically the free market working itself out. If buying silver bullion in the private market was cheaper than new, then not many would buy new. Then prices of the private market would go up as silver becomes more rare. So the free market evens things out.

I challenge anyone to find the same silver bullion cheaper in the private free open market than it is new and have to pay VAT.


Oh and Hamish I do hope your right that the price of gold and silver will come down again, so I can buy even more. However anyone with half a brain can see how undervalued gold is right now.
You also claim that fiat currencies are going up more than gold, just think about what you said! Care to give examples? Euro perhaps?

Silverbull

harryhound wrote: »

So have we established that silver coins and ingots are being stuffed under the floor boards by the wealthy of the country.
As they are expecting a mixture of inflation and crippling CGT on illusory increases in value measured in a depreciating fiat currency.

??

Im not wealthy but I am buying silver on a regular basis. I havent got any savings in cash, but I have a lot of savings in silver now. I am very happy how its going up.

Let me tell you, you sleep very well at night knowing you have silver before the price goes back up to over $50.