Organic cat food - any recommendations ?

quoia

Wig wrote:

There are no appetite suppressants in Burns feed! People say the stupidest things when they have absolutely no knowledge of what they are talking about!

And may I ask what makes you such an expert ?

mich_city

oldandhappy wrote:

Interested in Burns for my two little treasures now. Iams pouch food never went down well and have just bought another new one called natures:menu again 70% meat like Iams...They do not like it and it is a shame because it seemed like good ingredients...which is what we wish to feed them on. Likewise we try and feed ourselves with a good diet and take the time out to do just that. So far our health has improved with our changes and feel that we wish to do the best for our Cats future too.

mine do! - my kitten has had stomach probs from getting him at 12wks, have tried every brand going, cheap and dearer ones, wet & dry.. this is the only one thats sorted him out - so far, fingers crossed! - plus the other one likes it too.. so dont mind paying a bit extra to ensure my cats are healthy and happy.. thats more important to me to be honest!

oldandhappy

Glad they like it mich-city...I have one very fussy finicky eater and one that we call miss piggy...I mixed the natures:menu with Gormet and she eat it ok.. most cat foods have a low meat content it seems, they are used to that and the Iams and Nature:menu being 70% maybe tasted so different. I will continue mixing two types for a while and see if I can at least get miss piggy to enjoy it....fussy finicky is a real Hunter unfortunatley and his tastes are not ours I can tell you...

WeirdoMagnet

quoia wrote:

And may I ask what makes you such an expert ?

quoia - do you have any more details about the appetite suppressants that are used in pet food? I'd be interested to know more about it.

Wig

Georgina wrote:

quoia - do you have any more details about the appetite suppressants that are used in pet food? I'd be interested to know more about it.

Or are you just talking hot air from a back passage :rotfl:

Apparently they are going to breed new cows which don't produce so much hot air to stop global warming.

WeirdoMagnet

Wig wrote:

Apparently they are going to breed new cows which don't produce so much hot air to stop global warming.

Believe it or not I heard on the news today that someone has genetically engineered a cat that is 'hypoallergenic' and will not cause allergies for their human owners! Costs a mere £7000! Obviously not moneysaving! I was shocked that such (IMO) useless research goes on. Can't find a link now but it was on Radio 2.

gemlcoleman

Hello

getting the topic back on track...

I just thought I would mention that I went to my nearst tesco the other day and I saw natures diet in there!! I have also been looking for a nice pet food for my cats, after reading so many horror stories about whats in commerical food, (IE the stuff thats not for human consumption, including bits of LUNG, ug!) and also I try not to get animal-tested stuff.

Not many companies do 'wet' meat for cats though, only dry stuff which Ive also read can be bad for cats. The two I;ve found are natures diet (but not sure about animal testing policy) and Yarrah...who although aren't BUAV approved - http://www.buav.org/campaigns/petfood/alternatives.html

but yarrah do explain the'r reasons for this on their website.. http://www.yarrah.co.uk/

Only thing is...its not cheap!! Then again I'd rather spend more money than be forced to live on the crap they put in cat food, so I should do the same for my pets.

Also - to all those who have specifically come onto this thread just to abuse other people's life choices - who are you to dictate to others how they spend their money?? Sometimes what we choose to spend our money on is more important than what it costs. Would you buy something that was really cheap but was made using child labour?? Or spend more on something from an ethically produced source??

Everybody has ethics - money is not the be all and end all

Yes, this site is about moneysaving but that doesnt mean we would buy ANYTHING so long as it is cheap...some things are more important.

Gemma

Mamabear

gemlcoleman wrote:

Hello

getting the topic back on track...

I just thought I would mention that I went to my nearst tesco the other day and I saw natures diet in there!! I have also been looking for a nice pet food for my cats, after reading so many horror stories about whats in commerical food, (IE the stuff thats not for human consumption, including bits of LUNG, ug!) and also I try not to get animal-tested stuff.


Ooops, my Dad buys raw lung and snips it up (with scissors) for his cat.

He has a lovely coat (the cat not my Dad )

quoia

Wig wrote:

Or are you just talking hot air from a back passage :rotfl:

Apparently they are going to breed new cows which don't produce so much hot air to stop global warming.

I see that you never answered the question.

And may I ask what makes you such an expert ?

quoia

Georgina wrote:

I typed and lost a reply earlier this morning, so I hope I can remember what I said! :mad:

Do you have the names of any specific chemicals/compounds that could be used as appetite suppressants? Do you know which feeds contain them? I'd be interested to research it a bit further, although I'm pretty sure that Burns does not use them. They claim not to use any additives, which is one of the main reasons that I choose to feed it.

Tilly has a great appetite - I'm sure she could eat at least double what I give her, but she doesn't require that quantity, she'd only put on weight if I fed her more. Surely if there were appetite suppressants in the food she would be underweight? She's fit and healthy, and has lots of energy.

I don't know anything about hamsters specifically, but animals that have less efficient digestive systems (for instance the horse) need to consume a greater quantity of food (as a % of their body weight) to meet their nutritional requirements. Combine that with poor quality food (in the horse we could use poor quality hay as an example) and they need to consume even more.

When Tilly first arrived, I was feeding her quite large quantities (the exact amount escapes me) of Pedigree Complete. I disliked the colours, the oily/fatty coating and the size and density of the pieces of kibble, without even researching it! I looked into dog feeds and for a number of reasons, I chose Burns. IMO, they are transparent, give lots of information about their company and their products either via their website and also by post, and are more than willing to give nutritional advice either over the phone or by telephone. They've even sent me a full nutritional breakdown of the specific feed I use when I asked them. They are highly-recommended by other knowledgable dog owners too.

I'm grateful that you bought these suppressants to my attention quoia - I will certainly be looking into it further. Do you have a pet? What do you feed them?

PS. Apologies for taking this way off topic - I just want what's best for my dog!

Sorry to everyone re "hi-jacking" this thread on cat food but to answer Georgina


Sorry I didn't reply sooner - been a little busy for a "long" response.

I've kept Great Danes for the best part of 25 years.
They can have quite sensitive stomachs and finding what is best suited can almost come down to an individual dog.
I've had dogs that were very selective in what they would actually eat.
On one occasion we went away for the weekend with the dog taking his usual food, enough for 4 or 5 days, with us.
Sadly a family illness prevented us returning home for 11 days and we ran out.
We searched everywhere for the same brand without success.
I bought about a kilo of over 20 different brands & varieties over 3 days which my dog just refused to eat point blank.
Even with his favourite treat of cheese on toast added to it, he just fished out the treat and left the rest.
After 3 days of eating almost nothing I prepared fresh chicken and rice or pasta which is my fall back if my dogs are unwell.
As soon as we got home and back to his usual brand everything went back to normal.

Anyway over the years I've spoken to many people including vets, breeders, kennel owners, dog food manufacturers and retailers and pet store experts regarding dog food, particularly with regards to some of the issues I've had with my Danes.

An intense "research" period was July to December 1999 when I had problems with a particular dog born in Jan 1999, now seven and a half years old and laying at my feet as I type. This dog would eat about anything and was doing well except that "almost" diarrhoea was the norm and anything resembling firm almost unknown. It started when he was about 4 months old and another vet (my usual one was working abroad for several months) advised his digestive system might just take a while to adapt. I became concerned when this had not settled down by 6 months. I had tried several differents feeds but nothing seemed to make any difference although the dog was thriving and appeared to be unconcerned by its toilet habits.

Over the following months I asked many people for advice including my regular vet that I've used for 20+ years, who is fantastic with dogs especially the giant breeds, when he eventually returned from overseas.
I had never used one of these "concentrated" high mineral, high vitamin, high protein, high carbohydrate, low bulk no "waste" Iams/Eukanuba type feeds before but was willing to try one if it resolved the problem. I was surprised by the VERY small amount that would be given on a daily basis and enquired how this satisfied the dogs' hunger pangs. This was because I was thinking that I'd be hungry eating such a food where it contained all the calorific and nutritional requirements I needed on a daily basis but had so little volume, around 17% of "normal". Instead of a bowl of cornflakes for breakfast it would be an egg cup full. Lunch would be a sandwich made from half a slice of bread rather than 3 slices. Dinner plates would not be needed since your evening meal would fit on a saucer. One answer was that the dog would just get used to eating far less but several responses, including my vet's, referred to the control and suppression of appetite. Obviously my vet was aware of several drugs that can be used in the medical treatment of obese animals, usually dogs and cats, to assist a dietry regime in order to lose weight.

Someone said it was a "natural" control by the careful selection of some of the ingredients. I remember somebody suggesting that apples contain something that does this in dogs but I don't know for sure. I'm aware the pips of apples (and pears) and stones of other fruits can cause cyanide poisoning.

I do know that the old saying "One man's meat is another man's poison" is very true for humans and dogs.

Chocolate contains theobromine. This compound is a cardiac stimulant and diuretic.
A dog affected by a chocolate overdose, and a small dog only needs a small amount, can become excited & hyperactive and it may pass large quantities of urine becoming unusually thirsty due to the diuretic effect. Vomiting and diarrhoea are also common. However the most dangerous effect is of theobromine on the heart. Death is quite possible especially if exercising, because theobromine will either increase the heart rate or cause the heart to beat irregularly.
Another is onion, and to a lesser extent garlic, because they contain the ingredient thiosulphate which is toxic.
Dogs (and cats) affected by onion toxicity will develop haemolytic anaemia, where the circulating red blood cells burst, initially showing signs of gastroenteritis with vomiting, diarrhoea and lacking interest in food. The animal becomes dull and weak, and the pigment from the burst blood cells will turn their urine red. At this point it becomes breathless due to the reduction in oxygen the blood stream can carry.
I also learned quite recently that Macadamia nuts can cause muscle tremors and paralysis.
So maybe apples are the "natural" source of the drug that my vet would prescribe for appetite suppression.

Anyway I tried the "concentrated" and it didn't help. If anything it made it worse, slightly smaller amounts yes but definitely worse, which made sense when we reached the final solution.

Something I was told by an "expert" at one of the large pet store chains was that he would never feed anything that contained BEEF to any of his dogs because it was "too rich" and that I should stick to lamb or chicken based food. Also to look for a feed that had a lower protein content, perhaps only 17% to 19% rather than the 23% to 25% that some contained. We tried a food that met his criteria and within 3 days saw a significant improvement, not a total solution but definitely better than before. The dog would now be about 11 months old.

My regular vet (approx 14 years at the time) finally returned and I went to see him relating my foray into the world of dog foods and where it had taken me. He basically agreed with what the pet store expert had said and explained further. He effectively said that almost ALL manufactured dog foods were TOO GOOD for a dog and potentially harmful. The reason he gave which made sense to me was down to all dogs' ancestry. All dogs come from the wolf and their domestication is very recent, only a few thousand years ago, and whilst man has manufactured all the shapes and sizes, Pekinese to Great Dane, inside they are still a wolf. Their behaviour still demonstrates this with their pack tendendcies and having hierarchy, the alpha male as leader, hunting and herding etc. Wolves never had the diet we feed our dogs today. They would scavenge, eat birds, feathers, bones and all, perhaps kill sheep, goats and small deer, rabbits and similar small animals eating fur and skin etc., also raw fish and live off the natural carrion of the land. Insufficient time has passed for the digestive system of pet dogs to adapt and evolve into one that happily handles the processed food we force them to eat on a daily basis. It is just TOO GOOD and in fact is a very very recent change to adapt to. "Dog food" didn't exist 100 years ago, they just got the scraps off the table and from the kitchen, and most of them would have to share that with the farmyard chickens and the pigs.

As an example of "low grade" food being good for dogs he cited cans of Chappie - something apparently "praised" in veterinary circles - easily digested and does not strain the system unlike something like Pedigree Chum - compare them and it's like looking at "minced slop that smells of fish" and "prime chunks of fillet steak" but if you've got a dog with a dodgy tummy it's the Chappie they need.
Anyway he suggested that our lamb/rice and chicken/rice complete dry food still probably lacked sufficient fibre.
I always thought that fibre was the last thing you needed if tending in the direction of diarrhoea but took his advice of adding a handful of bran to each bowl of food. I tried it and it worked. I'll be needing a new bag of bran soon - well a very large sack actually - 25kg I think they are - intended for horses - lasts 3 to 4 years.

So as far as I am aware, these "low volume" foods prevent the "hunger pangs" of not eating a proper meal by the use of an appetite suppressor, natural or otherwise. I currently feed about 1kg of our complete meal a day, if I changed to Iams or Eukanuba I think they recommend 175 grams. Crikey my dog's stomach would think his throat had been cut.