complained to primark about plastic bags!

Revenge_of_the_Red_Devil · 9 August 2006 at 11:51PM

Like in Choice (an offshot of Next) - they selotape the bags with this security tape :rolleyes:

shopbot · 10 August 2006 at 6:00AM

I work as a Manager for a large fashion retailer and I cannot see how using a Primark bag contributes to their security. I've never even heard it being discussed as a possible measure within our organisation.

It could be an ill thought through measure introduced at a local level though. However if you give it more than a moments thought you can see that is flawed!

Primark are opening many new stores a the the moment and I guess that all they are trying to do is get as many bags seen on in shoppers hands as possible. That way people start to think that everybody is shopping at Primark.

As an aside one of my former regular customers always used to bring an empty Harvey Nichols bag into the store and ask that we put her purchase in that instead of our own bags. We always obliged as it's all about customer service and we were saving bags.

melancholly · 14 August 2006 at 3:41PM

And i have a reply (which actually does very little to explain the situation!):

"It is a strict policy of this company that all purchases, without exception, be placed in a bag provided for that purpose. This is to provide protection for both our customers and staff and acts as a visible proof of purchase in addition to till receipts.

As you will appreciate, although a receipt is issued for every item, it is not visible to store detectives and store security guards. Loose garments placed in customers own shopping bags could, therefore, lead to incidents where customers would be requested to return to the store after leaving in order to provide proof of purchase - a situation we would obviously want to avoid at any time."

so apparently the possibility of someone entering the store with their own primark bag for shoplifting hasn't occured to them!!
Interesting to know that it's a company policy though............ and to anyone else who feels like complaining - they enclosed vouchers for me......... I'm now in a dilemma whether to send them back saying I don't feel like you have addressed the problem, or to just shut up and spend them. Morally I know what I should do, but spending money on clothes is such a luxury that i'm torn (shameful i know!)

Wig · 14 August 2006 at 4:02PM

I was going to say that they just don't get itdo they, instead of replying by email they want to waste a tree and reply to you on paper! I would have refused and told them to email their reply, but then I wouldn't have got the vouchers.

Now that you have the vouchers, I'd use them, but I'd leave the bag at the till after payment.

What use is a primark bag when customers invariably have other bags on them?
What use is stapling a primark paper bag when customers have other bags on them?
What is to stop customers entering stores with other bags or primark bags?

I believe they cannot detain you at the store anyway, to do so would be arrest, and it would turn out to be a false arrest, which I understand you could sue them for.

As long as you have your receipt for the item to show any security guard at the door what's the problem? Certainly not grounds for detention!

Altarf · 14 August 2006 at 5:13PM

melancholly wrote:

And i have a reply (which actually does very little to explain the situation!):

But does confirm that the assistant in the store was telling the truth.

I presume the ban carrier bag militant front will now be boycotting Primark.

Lillibet_2 · 15 August 2006 at 8:40AM

Wig wrote:

believe they cannot detain you at the store anyway, to do so would be arrest, and it would turn out to be a false arrest, which I understand you could sue them for.

As long as you have your receipt for the item to show any security guard at the door what's the problem? Certainly not grounds for detention!

I believe No one except the police, not even security guards, have the legal right to detain you anywhere against your will. I believe If it occurs it is Kidnapp (only the police can be guilty of false arrest as only police can arrest. Legally citizens arrest is not recognized). Even if stores suspect or have proof of theft, I understand they cannot "hold you until the police arrive" if you ask to leave (although they will, and if you are guilty of the theft or if they have reasonable grounds then you are unlikey to see any action on the kidnapp claim front!) However, this comes back to the old adage that if you haven't got anything to hide it won't be a problem.

Personally I will continue as always in Primark, requesting no bag (it'll be a mission now!) & if they insist then taking things out after I have paid for them. I will, prehaps hold the recipt in my hand until I am out of the shop for quick verification if I am challanged by security.

shopbot · 15 August 2006 at 3:31PM

Lillibet wrote:

I believe No one except the police, not even security guards, have the legal right to detain you anywhere against your will. I believe If it occurs it is Kidnapp (only the police can be guilty of false arrest as only police can arrest. Legally citizens arrest is not recognized). Even if stores suspect or have proof of theft, I understand they cannot "hold you until the police arrive" if you ask to leave (although they will, and if you are guilty of the theft or if they have reasonable grounds then you are unlikey to see any action on the kidnapp claim front!) However, this comes back to the old adage that if you haven't got anything to hide it won't be a problem.

You are wrong.

Stores are entitled to detain anyone who has commited an arrestable offence (i.e. something that a Policeman could arrest you for) or if they reasonably suspect that a crime has been commited or is about to be commited. They may only use reasonable force to do so.

Citizens Arrest is a legally recognised power.

Kidnap is a completely different thing and has nothing to do with anything being discussed on this thread.

Lillibet_2 · 15 August 2006 at 6:29PM

But an arrestable offence is only proven to have been committed when a guilty verdict is reached at trial or if a culprit admits to it, until such a time it is unproven that an offence has been committed and therefore a person cannot be detained on suspician by someone without authority i.e a security guard or store manager. It is a loophole in the law. If you ask to leave & offer your name and address for them to submit to the police they cannot continue to hold you (although they obviously will) and they are therefore holding you against your will & denying you your liberty which is Kidnapp. I am farily sure but not totally certain that you can ask to leave anyway & if they continue to detain you it is still kidnapp, whether you offer up any details or not. Citizens arrest is not legal although it is recognized within the law. Another loophole is that although citizens arrest is not legal, citizens do have the legal right to use reasonable power when making the (unlawful) citizens arrest.

But you are totally right that this is nothing to do with this thread & I shall now desist:D

kittiwoz · 15 August 2006 at 8:41PM

According to this website the situation re. citizen's arrest is that it is lawful if it is carried out on the grounds of reasonable suspicion that an arrestable offence is being committed or after an arrestable offence has been committed. I.e. if you were in Primark and a security guard saw you put an item in your pocket they could lawfully make a citizen's arrest and even if a court subsequently found you had intended to pay the arrest would probably be considered lawful. However if the citizen's arrest occurs after the aleged arrestable offence has occured the arrest will probably be considered lawful only if the offence is then proved to have occured. So if a security guard sees you have an item in your pocket as you are leaving the store and makes a citizen's arrest this will likely be considered a lawful arrest if the item is indeed stolen but unlawful if you have simply refused a carrier bag.

Capyboppy · 15 August 2006 at 9:31PM

My husband used to be a security guard and is very clear on what can and cannot be done. This he has been ready for on the numerous occasions where we have been in a store and there has been the typical sterotype pumped up security guard who has virtually no powers at all. If he asks you to stop so he can search your bag, unless there is a uniformed policeman present, you have no obligation to let him do so, or remain in the store. He can ask you to stop under a "Citizens Arrest" BUT, he has to be virtually 100% sure you have shoplifted to do this else he can be done for assault. He can also be done for assault if he tries to physically stop you from leaving, even if it is putting his hand on your shoulder to try and restrain you. In the past because we have had "one of those faces" presumbly, and maybe looked a bit tattily dressed this has occasionally happened which is annoying and embarrassing. But with knowing our rights, Hubby has just quoted the above at them and kept walking and they haven't been able to do a thing.