E-Credit Plus on our cc statement!?!?!

donny909

lisyloo wrote: »

Yes Donny, if you both haven't signed up it's fraud.
Details can be lost (laptops on trains), stolen, sold on by people on the inside in India.
Just because there is no obvious explanation doesn't mean you are liable.
They burden of proof is on the card comapny to prove you are negligent, not on you to prove you weren't nefgligent.
Seems to me a lot of people have been rather harsh in assuming she signed up.

If she gievs her permission then they will speak to you.
The will need her permission under the Data Protection Act.
If this is going to be a permanent thing, she should write a letter giving you permission, otherwise she'll need to give her permission on every single phone call.

Of course if they come up with evidence of an agreement from your IP address, then you won't have a leg to stand on, but I don't know why everyone is assuming that's the case, rather than you are a victim of fraud.

Thanks for that responce. And thats another idea or possable line of thought, in that what if the call\processing centre has access to records that could give the details of the security\pin number off the back?. I mean in order for that pin number off the back to be used and checked as true and genuine there therefor HAS to be a record or have it stored somewere just what the pin number is. Of cause if there was a leak of info the cc company end I very much doubt they would admit to it.

Also another thought is the cloning machines. For as clever as they are and the information they can steel, are we really expected to be told they cant do the basic task of scanning or recording the security number of the back in a similar was as a cheap £10 text reading pen can?.

MPH80

You've also got to ask what the person commiting the fraud would gain through this attack.

There are reasons places like Blizzard (world of warcraft) and online electrical shops are used with fraudulent cards - it's because it gives the fraudster something.

What happened with you is that you had a card sent to your home address, and you were charged £100 for it. What does a fraudster gain from it? It's too large a transaction to be considered a tester ... (but then - perhaps the fraudsters are getting wise to it and trying a wider variety of sources).

The CV2 number (the security number), under credit card processing rules must not be stored by the retailer, so if that has been stored and then compromised then whichever company did that is in serious breah of their payment terms.

donny909

The cc was only ever used twice, once at PC World in december 08 and then at Argos in july\august 09. Apart from that there was only ever the missing cc statement (and that was reported at the time) that never arrived a few months ago. But the statement it seems would not have enough information to be of any use to anyone?.

But cc fraudsters are clever and wise on how they do it these days. So there could almost certainly be methods currently in use thats either not known or been made public if there are serious breaches of security in the cc banking systems?.

lisyloo

But the statement it seems would not have enough information to be of any use to anyone?.

Of course, not.
Otherwise you'd just have to steal mail to commit fraud.
Companies never send out enough information in one single letter, that's why PIN's are sent seperately from cards.
Of course coupled with other information it could be useful..

donny909

Also as said it's highly strange the money went off the credit card about the same time the bank\debit card was cloned or at least an attempt was made to take money out of the account overseas in Israel with "our" debit card?. Luckily the debit card was not setup to use overseas so nothing was taken from that. 2 cases of account details seeming being obtained or used around the same time?. Now that cant be just by chance in the same week can it when neither of us had ever had any problems with the Lloyds TSB account in the near 4 years we have had the account with them.

lisyloo

May or may not get back to her I ask her?. It's cc fraud they have to get back to her.

Donny I think you are making a mouintain out of a molehill at this stage.
What they meant was they would come back if they needed further details or had further questions.
They weren't saying they would do nothing or are turning down your claim.
It might go straight through without them needing to come back to you at all.

You will probably never be able to prove what happened, so you are probably wasting your time.
You simply have to wait for their reposnse, but if they turn it down it's up to them to prove you were negligent (or digned the deal) not up to you to prove you weren't.
These things naturally take some time.
They need to give the organisation time to verify the transaction and it might take them time to get proof.
But it hasn't been turned down has it?

I think you are getting your knickers in a twist over nothing at this stage.
All the meant was they'd come back if they didn't have enverything they needed to proceed.

donny909

Right, we had a letter off the card services department today which for what it said I found it rather annoying they could not have phoned to save a few days and ask what was put in the letter. Part of the letter goes along the lines of:

We did not obtain all the details we need to be able to help you with your query. Please send us the full details in writing, along with copies of all relevant documents withing the next 10 days

The partner shows me the letter after getting annoyed by it as I also did. And wandering what they mean by "relevant documents" she phones them. It seems they want us to put everything in writing and to provide them with a copy of our statement relating to this issue.

Now this is where I have the problem with them and are starting to think of the possability that they are trying to drag things out or put us off. By wanting full details in writing!, We did'nt do this transaction and nobody else had use of the card. What else do we need to put in writing?. How are we supposed to put full details in writing where we have no details to put?.

They are also requesting a copy of the cc statement?. It's the cc company (even if seperate department), the letter they sent us back has that extract from there copy of the statement where the letter states the transaction number for which we never provided them with when phoning them last week. So as to why they are wanting a copy of the statement they must have on there system to check and replied to is rather strange in my opinion.

Is all this quite normal measures from them? As there is pretty much nothing to put in way of full details and they must have the transactions\statement details on there system?. And if we cant detail anything in writing which we cant will they then possably refuse to go any futher with the claim on the basis of no propper respone?.

Also I'm wandering about this E-Credit Plus. Seems along with the £99.95 there is also possably a monthly fee payable of something like £4.95. What will happen to this?. Will this still be taken or tried to or possably a charge made to us if it gets returned as we have had the card replaced now?.

lisyloo

Now this is where I have the problem with them and are starting to think of the possability that they are trying to drag things out or put us off.

No, I think they are trying to clarify it exactly.
If you refuse to work withing their processes and refuse reasonable requests then they won't be able to help you.

We did'nt do this transaction and nobody else had use of the card. What else do we need to put in writing?. How are we supposed to put full details in writing where we have no details to put?.

Well you'd be better off askijg them exactly what they want to avoid further delay.
But I guess they want date of transaction, amount and statement in writing that you have not authorised it.
But you will get things done quicker if you ask then to itemise point by point exactly what they want. Frustrating I know but you won't get past the starting post if they can't tick their checklist, so you'd better do what they want if you want them to help you.

So as to why they are wanting a copy of the statement they must have on there system to check and replied to is rather strange in my opinion.

Either provide what they want.
Or ask them to explain why they need it.
There is not much point asking on here. We don't know why they need it. My best guess is that it's a poorly paid person in a call center working off a check list, but if you want them to help you need to comply.

And if we cant detail anything in writing which we cant

Why not?
Why can't you put the trqansaction details (for exmaple) in writing?

will they then possably refuse to go any futher with the claim on the basis of no propper respone?.

Yes if you don't provide the info they want, they won't be able to proceed.
Why won't you co-operate?
They only want a letter.
Can't be that hard to write a letter, listing everything they want, even if you think it's unnecessary. Perhaps they won't deal with it over the phone.

Will this still be taken or tried to or possably a charge made to us if it gets returned as we have had the card replaced now?.

It shouldn't go on the new card, but if the company believe they have a valid legal contract with you they may pursue you. So in theory they could get debt collectors/courts involved.

You OH didn't sign up for any free tooth whitening or diet pills did she or any freebies?

donny909

I can get all that so simply going to do as asked of them as take it from there I feel. Just thought some of it sounded strange where they all ready have most of what they are asking for\need anyways.

Oh and she's not signed for any such free items, certainly nothing that required cc or bank details as it's obvious it wont be free if payment details are needed.

EXTRA INFO;

Something about there setup is highly suspicious now, they have a disclaimer of sorts in there terms (as been digging for info on them) in a fraud section. Something about they will comply with law agencies etc but no mention of dealing with the cc companies as such if a claim of fraud arrises?. They seemingly also try to distance themselfs from any any fraud occuring from third parties acting on there behalf in illigally geting hold of peoples bank details?. And any such case of fraud is to be taken up with them and not this E-Credit Plus lot at all.

Going to be interesting to see how they will therefor deal with the cc company?.

TFD_2

donny909 wrote: »

I can get all that so simply going to do as asked of them as take it from there I feel. Just thought some of it sounded strange where they all ready have most of what they are asking for\need anyways.

Oh and she's not signed for any such free items, certainly nothing that required cc or bank details as it's obvious it wont be free if payment details are needed.

EXTRA INFO;

Something about there setup is highly suspicious now, they have a disclaimer of sorts in there terms (as been digging for info on them) in a fraud section. Something about they will comply with law agencies etc but no mention of dealing with the cc companies as such if a claim of fraud arrises?. They seemingly also try to distance themselfs from any any fraud occuring from third parties acting on there behalf in illigally geting hold of peoples bank details?. And any such case of fraud is to be taken up with them and not this E-Credit Plus lot at all.

Going to be interesting to see how they will therefor deal with the cc company?.

It would be a lot easier if your Mrs just came clean and admitted she signed up.

To clarify, E-Credit Plus aren't nice people - they misrepresent their card, and fleece you when you buy stuff from them. However there is nothing to suggest there is anything illegal with their busines, just that some aspects of it cross the line of what is moral IMHO.

If this was fraud, who would benefit by taking your card details, and signing you up for an E-Credit Plus account? Nobody. Credit card fraud involves buying stuff you want with somebody elses card, and having it delivered to you. It's not rocket science.