Help. National insurance no record of payments and hence no dole money

northernsoul

Hi
On Dec 3rd 2009 the company went into administration. I am owed 21 days holiday and 5 days pay.i am reasonably confident of getting this as you get it from some sort of Natiotional insurance fund as long as you earn less than £380 a week. More importantly, although i have paid tax and NI contributions for the tax year April 08-April 09, both departments (Inland Revenue and NI) have no record of my payments and hence i cannot get any dole money! I have wage slips until Week 34 of that year showing NI payments from me of £1003. The other wage slips i left at work in my desk and while i was on hol the company closed and cleared out the factory. I have been onto tax office, benifit office, NI office, and administrators with no luck. Its now 3 months with no job and no joy. Its seems i have to prove the NI recieved my NI contributions. Administrators are no use. Even though they say they have a backup of computer sytems they say they cannot print out the rest of my wage slips for that year. Even if they could, NI say thats not good enough as they say its not proof we recieved your contributions. Acas say sue the administrators (too expensive) Been everywhere i can think of. Going to Citizens advice this week, but not hopefull. Have too much money to get income support but this is going down fast. Any advice would be very appreciated.

markandkate

If you can prove that you have had the payments deducted from your salary then you should be paid your JSA.In the abscence of payslips what about P60's can you get copies from tax office? You could always show records of your bank accounts which will show what you were paid and this should tie up with the pay slips that you already have. Appeal against the JSA decision anyway and do not delay claiming housing and council tax benefit if you are eligible.

MacsReturns

Getting a copy of your P60 for that tax year is your best bet. Can the administrators get this, even though they won't/can't do the wage slips?

northernsoul

I have wage slips until week 34 of that year and the dole office has copied week 34 which shows i have paid just over £1000 in NI contributions, but they have refused me. Your last 2 years NI contributions are taken into account for dole money and maybe 1 year and 34 weeks contributions are not enough. i will have to ask benifits people if they recieved the copy of my wage and if 1 year and 34 weeks are enough for benefits. Forgot to put i have my P60 for that year and it says i paid only £300 in NI contributions even though my wage slip up to week 34 says i paid just over a £1000! The 2 do not tally! I can show bank statements which tie up with what pay slips i have got. I can show weeek 35 to 52 net wages on my bank statement. I hope they can work back from that to work out my gross pay but i guess the problem doing this will be if i had any extra deductions. I can show from the wages i have that there are no extra reductions but will they believe me. I can prove i had the paymnts deducted from my salary up to week 34 and have told NI but NI still say they have not recieved anything. It seems proving it has come out of my salary is not enough, i have to prove NI recieved them. The company may not have paid NI and thats why ACAS say i should sue the administrators, as representitives of the company.

dampsquib

HMRC actually collect NI contributions and then pass them on, so you should be able to ask your tax office for evidence of what NI was paid/received. The "deduction card" received by HMRC (or electronic equivalent) should agree with your P60 though, so it may not come up with the answer you are hoping for. It's suspicious that your P60 shows less than one of your payslips. Are you perhaps trying to compare "apples & pears"? Is the figure on your Payslip NI that you paid? Or is it perhaps a combined figure which includes the NI paid by your employer too?
If HMRC is unhelpful or slow, you could consider submitting a request under the Data Protection Act, which now seems to be free. They have deadlines to meet then - see here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/dp-fs1.htm

northernsoul

Hi Dampsquid, thanks for your input and suggesting a request. Interesting to hear HMRC collect NI contributions, so i only have to concern myself with HMRC. Neither HMRC or NI have any records for me for tax year ending April 09 (but they both have records for previous tax year ending April 08!). My P60 says Employees Contributions £314.54 (in unnamed dark box in middle it is £680.62 - guess this is employers contributions)) (therefore 314.54+680.62=£995.16) My week 34 wage (last i have for that year) says National Insurance TD is £1001.38. I am certain this is my contributions because adding the previous week 33 pay slip NI TD (£968.66) + my week 34 NIs deductions(£32.72) adds up to £1001.38 (968.66+32.72). Earnings for NI TD is £12658. So nothing tallys between P60 and my wage. As i said i still have to find out if 1 year(tax year 07/08) and 34 weeks (tax year 08/09) NI contributions is enough, but i get the impression from talking to NI i still have to persuade NI i have paid this, and the 07/08 P60 and 08/09 week 34 wage is not enough evidence! They still go on about they have not recieved anything, even when i tell them i have P60 and up to week 34 wages(does not help though, that 08/09 P60 does not tally with wage slip). Today i go to Citizens Advice (if open). Thanks again

dampsquib

northernsoul wrote: »

.... so i only have to concern myself with HMRC. ....

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid, but as HMRC actually collect the money for the department wanting the NI, HMRC play an important (& in your case useful) role. Whilst HMRC might not have any records for you for the year 2008/09, they should, in some other dark corner of the computer system, have records supplied by your employer, including an entry for you summarising how much Tax & NIC the employer has deducted from you. Information from these "employer records" should get fed into the individual taxpayer records, but delays and omissions do occur. The employer entry for you should report exactly the same details which were supplied to you on your P60, but as you don't have a P60 for 2008/09, details from HMRC should count as equivalent evidence (unlike your wage slip, which isn't actual evidence of what's been handed over). Ask HMRC to dig a little deeper into your employer's records. You can always try the Data Protection Act request, as the records for the employer lurking somewhere will contain information which mentions your name, so should be covered by the DPA.
I had a similar problem with Jobseekers Allowance. After being made redundant, Jobseekers said I hadn't paid any NI. My problem was easily rectified though as I was able to produce P60s for all the relevant years. So I didn't have to get further info from HMRC.

FatAndy

northernsoul wrote: »

Hi Dampsquid, thanks for your input and suggesting a request. Interesting to hear HMRC collect NI contributions, so i only have to concern myself with HMRC. Neither HMRC or NI have any records for me for tax year ending April 09 (but they both have records for previous tax year ending April 08!). My P60 says Employees Contributions £314.54 (in unnamed dark box in middle it is £680.62 - guess this is employers contributions)) (therefore 314.54+680.62=£995.16) My week 34 wage (last i have for that year) says National Insurance TD is £1001.38. I am certain this is my contributions because adding the previous week 33 pay slip NI TD (£968.66) + my week 34 NIs deductions(£32.72) adds up to £1001.38 (968.66+32.72). Earnings for NI TD is £12658. So nothing tallys between P60 and my wage. As i said i still have to find out if 1 year(tax year 07/08) and 34 weeks (tax year 08/09) NI contributions is enough, but i get the impression from talking to NI i still have to persuade NI i have paid this, and the 07/08 P60 and 08/09 week 34 wage is not enough evidence! They still go on about they have not recieved anything, even when i tell them i have P60 and up to week 34 wages(does not help though, that 08/09 P60 does not tally with wage slip). Today i go to Citizens Advice (if open). Thanks again

The £680.62 will be total of employees plus employers contributions, ie the total employers contribution will be £366.00. The employees rate is 11% and employers rate 12.8% and the same thresholds apply so the employers contribution will only be slightly more that the employees.

(Check : 12.8/11 x £314.54 = £366.01)

This may be stating the obvious a bit but do your payslips/P60 show an NI number? If the number is missing or incorrect this may explain why your contributions can not be traced.

northernsoul

I have a P60 for 08/09. Gross pay £18756.28, tax deducted 2543.2, Employee's NI contributions (only) £314.54. My last wage from that tax year is week 34, tax paid TD 1744.60, National Insurance TD £1001.38. Just realised, although P60 says tax paid £2543, they have no record of me. NI's of £314 seem way too low for the Gross pay. Tax seems lowish as well. Phoning HMRC

northernsoul

Hi Fat Andy. Thanks for your input. I had checked all my NI numbers on all my documents and they are all the same and correct. Thanks for the explanation of the 'unnamed dark box' Still trying to get to bottom of it after 2 months. On phone now waiting to talk to Tax office asking why no records when pay slip says i paid £2543 in tax. Thanks

fengirl_2

In your first post you said that your job ended in Dec 09, which is the tax year 09-10, which has not yet ended. You will not have a P60 for this year as you will not have been in employment at 5/4/10. I think you have your years mixed up.
HMRC will not yet have your employers return (form P35) for 09-10 (I assume the administrators are dealing with this). Until this return is received they cannot tie up the money they have received from your old company with indivduals records - they just receive lump sum payments each month from employer.
I think you need the administrators to resolve this as they are the ones with the PAYE records.