ASHP's & planning consent, opinions sought

thills

Thanks Al.
What I have learned, for what it is worth.
1) This technology isn't really wanted in high density areas by the planners. ANY noise is seen as unwanted & they really want a 37dB maximum on even the permitted developments. It will go ahead on 45dB though.
2) Soon, the onus will be on the MCS certified installer that the development is suitable, if they get it wrong, the installation could be removed.
3) For multiple occupancy dwellings, ASHP's are not accepted as being suitable & only when the technology has matured/improved/been understood, is there any chance of this changing.
They will never be PD's on such dwellings.
4) If you are going to make an application, as I did, don't assume that this is wanted technology (high density areas) & there is going to be any "sympathy" from planning because it is eco friendly. You would have to get expert reports done to go with your application, don't try submitting your own.
5) If you apply to install unit "E" in position "X" you will get a yes or a no. Do not expect (as I did) that you might get a communication indicating what might be suitable.
6) You can, I believe buy pre-planning advice from your local authority.

Perhaps this is actually right. There are blocks of low rise around here with 60 flats, allow 1 ASHP & you might get 60 running in an area 100M x 50M.

I hope this helps anyone in the future who wan't to go this route.

TH

thills

PS. I give up by the way.

Andy_WSM

thills wrote: »

PS. I give up by the way.

Shame, but having been wrapped up in Council red tape in the past myself - I can't say I blame you!

Cardew

If you go to the very first post on the long Heatpump thread started by samtheman1k, he posts this about his Ecodan system.

The main drawback is the noise generated by the HP itself. It is 49dB according to the specs, but I would say that it is about the same as a modern washing machine on spin cycle. This may or may not be a problem depending on where you live. The HP needs to be as close to your house as possible to prevent heat losses through your pipes, so you can't hide it at the back of your garden! However, it is hard to hear through a double glazed window, so shouldn't be too much of a problem. However, your neighbours may not be so sympathetic. There are no regs AFAIK on siting a HP as the main problem is the noise and that is already covered by the normal environmental noise regs. If you mounted it on your boundary next to your neighbours windows, then they may well complain. In Ireland, they are suggesting that there should be a 5m distance between any HP and a boundary, so we used that as a guide for England, but our garden is only about 7m wide, so doesn't actually quite meet that but we've done our best to site it in the least annoying place. We haven't had any complaints yet, but only time will tell. As mentioned, if it is a good few meters away, and your neighbours have double glazing, it shouldn't be a problem, although I'm not offering any guarantees! Also note that as it powers your central heating, it won't be running much during summer (bar hot water), so shouldn't be much of a problem when in the garden during the summer. Also, the HP is large. About 90cm by 90cm by 30cm, so you'd need a space to put something that size and is, tbh, rather unsightly! Although this is less than the size of an oil tank I suppose. It also needs a 30cm (iirc) space behind and 50cm infront for the flow of air, so can be mounted on bracket on the wall if you buy big brackets (it weighs about 90kg).

I note he states the spec states 49db - have Mitsubishi reduced this to 45db? His is well over 2 years old.

Perhaps this is actually right. There are blocks of low rise around here with 60 flats, allow 1 ASHP & you might get 60 running in an area 100M x 50M.

Amen!

thills

Cardew wrote: »

If you go to the very first post on the long Heatpump thread started by samtheman1k, he posts this about his Ecodan system.



I note he states the spec states 49db - have Mitsubishi reduced this to 45db? His is well over 2 years old.



Amen!

Probably, the smaller unit is a bit quieter.

ctolmie

I just installed an S500 ASHP from Trianco. I have to say the noise overall is fine, but an interesting comparison is made by Trianco. The device is estimated by Trianco as 52dB and they claim this is similar to a chest freezer. Well, not my chest freezer!! It is like an industrial chest freezer.

External websites say the 52dB is equivalent to a conversation. Yes, but a loud one, not like you would have in an office, more like a conversation where you have to raise your voice to be heard.

All that said, I have run this for a couple of days now, inside my garage. The fan is pretty quiet, and so too is the compressor. I have it on rubber mounts attached to the wall and there is little vibration. The noise seems to be in two parts - a wind noise from the air movement driven by a quiet fan, plus the hum of the compressor.

I run it only during the day (air temperatures are higher than at night so it is more efficient) when there is more ambient noise (traffic, people coming and going etc.). If it was outside and backing directly onto my garden or house from another property I would probably be annoyed. But, more than 6 metres away and it is a faint hum relative to all the other noises (I am on a relatively quiet area).

Hope this helps.

Chris

Andy_WSM

ctolmie wrote: »

I just installed an S500 ASHP from Trianco. I have to say the noise overall is fine, but an interesting comparison is made by Trianco. The device is estimated by Trianco as 52dB and they claim this is similar to a chest freezer. Well, not my chest freezer!! It is like an industrial chest freezer.

External websites say the 52dB is equivalent to a conversation. Yes, but a loud one, not like you would have in an office, more like a conversation where you have to raise your voice to be heard.

All that said, I have run this for a couple of days now, inside my garage. The fan is pretty quiet, and so too is the compressor. I have it on rubber mounts attached to the wall and there is little vibration. The noise seems to be in two parts - a wind noise from the air movement driven by a quiet fan, plus the hum of the compressor.

I run it only during the day (air temperatures are higher than at night so it is more efficient) when there is more ambient noise (traffic, people coming and going etc.). If it was outside and backing directly onto my garden or house from another property I would probably be annoyed. But, more than 6 metres away and it is a faint hum relative to all the other noises (I am on a relatively quiet area).

Hope this helps.

Chris

I have the same unit and installed it in my loft. It froze solid this Winter, making a right mess in the loft - ice everywhere! Be aware that experience says they need LOTS of air movement and an enclosed space doesn't offer that (Despite what the manual says!)

It is now on the back wall of my bungalow and is working great - I have however, set a thermostat up on the wall beneath it to turn on auxiliary electric heating when the outdoor temperature drops below 3C - This is the point that I have found the Trianco starts becoming inefficient.

It's certainly a good starter heat pump, but next time I'll invest in something better - that said, it might last 10 years or more!

albyota

ctolmie wrote: »

I just installed an S500 ASHP from Trianco. I have to say the noise overall is fine, but an interesting comparison is made by Trianco. The device is estimated by Trianco as 52dB and they claim this is similar to a chest freezer. Well, not my chest freezer!! It is like an industrial chest freezer.

External websites say the 52dB is equivalent to a conversation. Yes, but a loud one, not like you would have in an office, more like a conversation where you have to raise your voice to be heard.

You may find that because you have installed it inside a garage....(:eek:) this will create a 'soundbox effect' and will be a lot louder than if it were outside.

apoorman

thills - I had consent refused by my local authority recently - potential noise levels. What makes me very suspicious is that I never offered or was asked which unit I would install, so could have been a top make or something from China off ebay. Makes me think that refusals are decided before your application. To win, you would have to make a really good case, as a developer might be able to do.
I take this as fair enough, they can be quite noisy, & will not suit that many sites. What I do object to, is subsidising via my electricity bill, the RHI, for technology I can't fit - I do not have mains gas! (if I did I would never touch a heat pump).

thills

I'm sure that in time, better (quieter) models will be developed & that there will be some competition in the market - I wonder if the RHI will just bump up prices even further? I think this year, you will be permitted to fit one without consent, if it falls within certain criteria, it will be the responsibility of the MCS installer to ensure it complies, it does not mean though that your neighbours can't complain afterwards, as I understand it.
With hindsight, I was stupid to apply for use in an apartment, it's never going to be allowed. Mitsubishi quote 45dB, that's pretty quiet, but the post from samtheman states "like a washing machine on spin" - and that's not quiet at all.