ASHP's & planning consent, opinions sought

thills

Hi all.

Having had planning refused for a planned ASHP (ecodan) for an apartment a week ago, I would like to hear from anyone who has had approval/refusal & if it is worth appealing.
Reasons for refusal were a) noise & b) conservation area.
1) 45dB is not noisy, I am told a combi boiler flue is 40dB. So only a bit more noise.
2) Neither of the two other apartments (above & below) have any objection.
3) The nearest other property is 18M away.

It seems that soon ASHP's will be permitted developments as long as very strict criteria are met, which will not be met by the vast majority of UK homes.
Nobody want's to do anything anti-social residentially, but this technology is a genuine energy saving & CO2 saving, unlike a lot of the well supported ideas out there.
Electricity is costly, in both terms & even if you use E7, every KW while cheaper in pence, produces just the same CO2.

Anyone any experience of a planning appeal?

Thanks:mad:

lomb

Britain is a nanny state and the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing. I would have plonked a 'Diy' ASHP in and run it for a year with no planning , when no objections are received i would have plonked in the ecodan and you would never have heard anything again. Is the condenser even visible from the road in your flat? Would you not just have put it on the balcony if there is one? The other thing is you wanted an ecodan then do you have underfloor heating or the ability to tear up the floors which is expensive?

thills

It would be visible, yes I would have put in underfloor. Would not spend £10K+ on a wing & prayer. The ASHP can wait a bit, but the UFH has to be done during renovations & the initial consent application took 8 weeks (delay).

albyota

thills, if you are sold on underfloor heating (IMO is the best form of heating) then you could install UFH pipe work as you are renovating and connect it to an electric boiler, boosting on E7 at night

OUTPUT 9 KW --- (30,600 BTU's) --- Width 165mm, Height 1080mm, Depth 143mm[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] £476[/FONT]

then / if.... when you can get permission (appeal), wack in the ASHP, a bit risky I know. UFH water temp only needs to be 35 - 40 degrees, if you can store enough (70+ degree) from the thermal store at night then the UFH mixing valve would take care of the UFH temp.

Cardew

thills wrote: »

Hi all.

2) Neither of the two other apartments (above & below) have any objection.
3) The nearest other property is 18M away.

We did discuss this in the other thread.

I am not surprised that planning permission was refused for a unit bolted to a first floor flat. The present occupants in the flats above and below might not object, but subsequent occupants? - with their windows open would the noise not be intrusive?

The Council are in a 'damned if they do and damned if they don't' position in these situations. If they grant permission, you spend £thousands, and noise/vibration is a problem??

I also live in a conservation area, and there are very strict requlations on any visible(from the road) alteration to external appearance; and a unit bolted to a first floor apartment would presumably be visible?

45dB is not noisy, I am told a combi boiler flue is 40dB. So only a bit more noise.

Incidentally Noise in db is a non-linear measurement. A 10db rise is a doubling in the noise level - so 45db is quite a bit louder than 40db.

albyota

It is quite likely (downhill with the wind behind you) that if you appeal your planning may be granted, as, a) the noise level is not an issue, and your neighbours are 'on your side'

from the GDPO CONSULATION DOCUMENT

(Noise limit - The noise level from the installation must not exceed 45dB L

AEQ, 5 min at 1 metre from the window of a habitable room in the facade of

any neighbouring residential property (but ignoring the effect of that facade).

Write to your MP to get some support (if he/she has any common sense)

as I have posted several times on the noise level of my ASHP, it is very much quieter than my next door neighbours oil boiler flue, and in a quiet village, you can here his boiler from ten (yes 10) houses away, my heat pump cannot be heard from even my next door neighbour 5 metres away, actually we rarely hear it in our house.

albyota

thought this might be useful to those who have no perception of noise levels.....

AEG T56840L
Freestanding Condenser Tumble Dryer

• 7 Kg Condenser Tumble Dryer
• B Rated Energy Rating
• Sensor Drying
• 62 dB Noise Level

Customer rating 5.0 out of 5


OR

LG WD12316RD


Energy Label: C,
Type: Washer dryer,
Noise level in decibels: 53dB,
Loading capacity in kg: 8kg,
Loading Type: Front loading,
Spin speed: 1200 rpm

A 3dBA reduction on a logarithmic scale is half the volume it was.

I don't think there is any law or regulation about putting one of these in a Shed outside your house.

Andy_WSM

I'd appeal the decision. It's ridiculous that the Government big up this technology all the time and the local council's seem too willing to block it on a whim. 45db is the max expected noise and very unlikely that you'd hear that in your own place, let alone the neighbours.

Vibration would be my biggest concern...

thills

Cardew.. yes dB is not linear.
Conservation area, it can be sited at the rear.
I do understand the need for regulations, but 45dB is the noise made by a microwave oven cooking.

I would argue that 45dB is not a noise nuisance, apparently I will need an "experts" report to be done to accompany the appeal.

My MP, good idea.

thills

Cardew wrote: »

The Council are in a 'damned if they do and damned if they don't' position in these situations. If they grant permission, you spend £thousands, and noise/vibration is a problem??

It was quite apparent that they had little or no knowledge of ASHP's, and it's "safer" to say no. I suspect most of the A/C installed in homes/business is without any consent, you would not know you needed it. B&Q etc sell shedloads.
I was asked to provide details of the proposed unit with the application, the Ecodan is the quietest made.

albyota

thills, there is someone called planning_officer on this thread......might be of some use

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=30462451#post30462451