Why now so hard to get that 1st rung on the propery ladder compared to years gone by?

F_T_Buyer

PoorDave wrote:

House prices are not "artificially" high. They are just high. The market conditions are what they are, and bleating about how it's not like the 1970's or whichever decade the "it's not fair i can't buy a house" brigade choose to compare today to.

I realise you are only quoting someone else (i assume "HPC" is the joyous forum that is the House Price Crash website!), but you seem to agree with the sentiments.

No, I suppose it's not fair it was easier even just a few years ago than it is today, but that's the way of the world. Mnay things aren't fair to all concerned.

I am 27 and on what you might call the 2nd rung of the ladder, but i would have much more capital (and probably a bigger house) than i do now if i'd bought the second i could afford to, but i don't because i didn't. I don't feel hard done by

So what's your argument? You're complaining because people now a days are saying it's not fair? Are you saying people shouldn't complain anymore about anything because it 'market forces'. Maybe you would like to plague this website and answer people questions with 'that's life', 'it's market forces' and 'live with it'.

You may decide to put me, and others like me, into the "it's not fair i can't buy a house" brigade, but similarly I put you in the "I'm alright jack, so why should I care" brigade. It's people like you that make this world so greedy and selfish!

Firstly, I do think prices are artificially high. In that they are a bubble, i.e. not based on sound fundermentals but speculation.

This government could have done alot more with the planning system, in that they have restricted building, and building the right type of housing. There is more information on unaffordable housing here: http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/143.pdf

Oh, and this letter was written to an MP I believe.

Jay1b

Jim_B wrote:

I grow so sick of hearing smug !!!!!! say that people could buy a house if they didn't buy iPods. How many people do you see buying 150000 pounds' worth of iPods?

I've just brought a house at 25, i dont have an IPod. I done this because i had a huge deposit i've saved, whereas most of my friends have nowhere near the same amount saved.... Incidentally they all have IPods, and other similar junk.

People saying it doesnt mean IPods alone, but other stuff which you may buy that you dont really need - such as an IPods, new alloy wheels for your car, a decent car stereo..etc...etc..

Incidentally inflation isnt above the 2.5% (or there abouts), its just some things rise faster than inflation, other things become cheaper and cheaper. For example a 21inch TV cost about £500 15 years ago, now it would be about £150. Obviously this takes time, but it factors like those that bring down the inflation rate to an average of 2.5%

PoorDave

The person on this thread counting out how many ipods you can buy for the price of a house hs missed the point.

It's the "new ipod this month, even though i have the last generation ipod" culture. Do that every month and that's why you don't have deposit money to buy a house.

lisyloo

The person on this thread counting out how many ipods you can buy for the price of a house hs missed the point.

It's not just the ipod.
It's the car (each) - with cd player of course, the mobile phone, the holidays abroad, the clothes, eating out, booze, fags, night clubs etc.

I never had ANY of this but my counterparts today have ALL of those things.

When I was young, you just didn't eat out or get takeaways.
We might have got fish and chips a few times a year that was all.

Nowadays it's a takeaway several times a week for some people.

I'm not that old (still under 40) but it's a huge shift from how we used to live. I don't think some of the younger people realise that.

PoorDave

F_T_Buyer wrote:

So what's your argument? You're complaining because people now a days are saying it's not fair? Are you saying people shouldn't complain anymore about anything because it 'market forces'. Maybe you would like to plague this website and answer people questions with 'that's life', 'it's market forces' and 'live with it'.

You may decide to put me, and others like me, into the "it's not fair i can't buy a house" brigade, but similarly I put you in the "I'm alright jack, so why should I care" brigade. It's people like you make this world so greedy and selfish!

Firstly, I do think prices are artificially high. In that they are a bubble, i.e. not based on sound fundermentals but speculation.

This government could have done alot more with the planning system, in that they have restricted building, and building the right type of housing. There is more information on unaffordable housing here: http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/143.pdf

Oh, and this letter was written to an MP I believe.

I'm saying it's not massively useful to this forum if somebody only ever seems to post on one subject, and always from the same point of view of how it's not fair, and that they hope the market crashes so they can own property they weren't able to buy before.

Maybe artificially high is not the phrase... maybe "high without sound economic foundation" compared to previous decades.

I don't want to tell people to "just live with it", but my problem is when the only solution someone can see to their own inability to purchase a residential property seems to be to complain about it.

As I see it, houses are expensive because there are more households - i.e. more single people owning houses etc (i don't have any facts to back this up - it's just my opinion). In order for people to buy in this case, salary multiples are higher, as this means lenders cash in by lending more to households with one salary. However this might be nonsense (at least i admit it!), as it seems in "the old days" most house purchases were financed by one salary.

F_T_Buyer

I agree in that some youngsters waste money, I have many friends who just spend all the money they can get their hands on. I agree that at current times they will never be able to afford a house.

But to tar every first time buyer with the same brush is just plain wrong. I have always lived frugally, and don't waste money. I do go out for meals, buy things I want (not things that I think I want), and still manage to save 75% of my net income.

Yet should I blow all this on a flat that would not be feasible when I want kids? Wage inflation is not keeping up with living cost inflation, so how would I, and other like me, ever move up the so called ladder?

Jay1b

The people who are lucky are those like my brother who brought around 1996, £45K for a 4 bedroom house house worth £160K... Probably the equivilent of buying it for about £90K at todays wages, you had best of both worlds. Cheap houses, but everything was fairly similar to today. Although then it was the personal cd player instead of the ipod. But it can still be done, i brought a 3 bedroom house 3 months ago, and i'm only on £18K a year living in the South East.

meanmachine_2

Jay1b wrote:

The people who are lucky are those like my brother who brought around 1996, £45K for a 4 bedroom house house worth £160K... .

No not "worth" £160K.

That's its current asking price, based on a single snapshot - with interest rates at 4.5%, following 8 years of price rises and a temporary cheap credit boom that has seen house prices balloon in every single developed country, plus a few more besides.

I'd love poordave and the others to explain to me how countries like the US have "enjoyed" a boom in prices when they're neither cramped nor burdened with draconian planning laws.

F_T_Buyer

PoorDave wrote:

I'm saying it's not massively useful to this forum if somebody only ever seems to post on one subject, and always from the same point of view of how it's not fair, and that they hope the market crashes so they can own property they weren't able to buy before.

PoorDave, I understand your argument. But how many threads are started on here saying "should I put my money into bricks and mortar"? The answers are always the same "you can't lose", "it's a one way bet".

This is the reason I come on here. I am one of the few who is arguing against this and pointing out the risks. Also, you will find from my posts I back up my points with sound reasoning, unlike many of those who argue for investing in property.

I have not continually complained about housing, although I do feel there is a fair amount of inequality. I have not continually copied and pasted like one member did, which wasn't helpful. I have answered questions (which I hope members find helpful), some of which have been yours on other threads. I get many people sending me PMs, on this and other websites asking more questions about economics, and I enjoy helping people out.

I do also read HPC, although it is too fast moving so only read important threads. It is an eye opener to the spin in the media, and is judge by it's name rather than it's content (unfortunately). I mainly spend my time on other investment forums.

[Deleted User]

Before everyone harps on with their tales of frugality "i didn't buy my house by going out, enjoying myself and having any form of life" we must just accept one fact my dad taught me from a young age:

Life is not fair