Duplex Renovation Questions - Into 2 flats

ET1976

cottlad wrote: »

If anyone else has any constructive comments other than 'don't do it' then i'd be really happy to hear them.

OK, here's a curveball for you. Get the nice chap downstairs to sell you the ground floor and you've got an absolutely cracking house (to live in or sell)

Really do not like the sound of borrowing relatives money to do this conversion...

Fire_Fox

jenner wrote: »

now thats quite worrying because they seem to be at your bottom end of hoped for sale price, those prices are 'asking prices' AND one of them has had to resort to auction

And there are granite worktops and travertine bathroom tiles in amongst there. :smileyhea

cottlad

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Look at the finish and quality you are up against:

Without accurate measurements i would say that each of the 2 flats we MAY end up creating would be around 35% bigger than any of the above links and finished to just as good a design/standard

puddy

ok, so lets try and work this out by numbers

the op initially said that to convert both flats he would look at 40k plus vat

there is advice on here that says that should really be per flat, not for both, so lets split the difference and say 60k plus vat

legals, the op thought maybe 1k

selling costs of course, lets say 1%

cost of lease? we dont know

sale price, lets be positive, but realistic and based on the asking prices of the flats above, lets say that the price paid for each of them is 155k

so, outgoings 69k, 1k, 3k, plus costs of leases, 73k

income 310k

left over 237, you said mortgage outstanding is 270k? is that correct?

i know you want to hear its viable but i really dont think it is,, thats if NOTHING goes wrong and you get a good price

cottlad

ET1976 wrote: »

OK, here's a curveball for you. Get the nice chap downstairs to sell you the ground floor and you've got an absolutely cracking house (to live in or sell)

Really do not like the sound of borrowing relatives money to do this conversion...

Tried that route already as we had a buyer waiting for the lot... he was keen but would have to pay tax so declined...... dunno what the old boys saving his money for..... he's well into his 80's already. So yes.... him dieing during the conversion could be a possibility and is something else i now have to worry about lol :mad:

puddy

cottlad wrote: »

Tried that route already as we had a buyer waiting for the lot... he was keen but would have to pay tax so declined...... dunno what the old boys saving his money for..... he's well into his 80's already. So yes.... him dieing during the conversion could be a possibility and is something else i now have to worry about lol :mad:

sorry

i realised that the 1k on your OP was for the architect, i dont know if thats accurate or not, never used one

i also forgot to add vat to the estate agent fees

would you pay a project manager separately to an architect? i dont know if they do the same thing or not. is the 1k you identified for the 12 weeks of work or a one off drawing?

are there fees for planning apps too?

cottlad

jenner wrote: »

ok, so lets try and work this out by numbers

the op initially said that to convert both flats he would look at 40k plus vat

there is advice on here that says that should really be per flat, not for both, so lets split the difference and say 60k plus vat

legals, the op thought maybe 1k

selling costs of course, lets say 1%

cost of lease? we dont know

sale price, lets be positive, but realistic and based on the asking prices of the flats above, lets say that the price paid for each of them is 155k

so, outgoings 69k, 1k, 3k, plus costs of leases, 73k

income 310k

left over 237, you said mortgage outstanding is 270k? is that correct?

i know you want to hear its viable but i really dont think it is,, thats if NOTHING goes wrong and you get a good price

Yeah if we work on worst possibe that's still way above your figures.
£165k would be a price to sell them the day after completion so that is the absolute minimum. They don't even compare with FF's links.

If i get a 'quote' for £40k and the end bill is £60k there's a serious problem and i've chosen a bad builder. The 1 'estimate' i've had already has said unless there is a massive unforseen problem, his final quote would not differ by more or less than 10%

So let's say max £55k inc VAT for arguments sake
Current mortgage is £270k
Selling costs around £3500
Legal costs £1000
Lease????

So in = £330k plus
Out = £55k + £270k = £330k

So anything over the snap up price of £165k/flat is profit.

Even if we only got £160k/flat and spent £60k on the work we would still surely be financially better off than taking a guaranteed £25k hit by selling at 250?

BUT...... there would be potential to get the work done for 45k..... 5k costs....... selling both for £360k and make £40k profit?


I'm honestly not ploughing ahead with rose tinted specs and am still VERY open to the idea of this not being viable. But i don't want to necessarily cancel the possible project before finding out full facts on the notion that it could all go fantastically wrong. Even looking at a worst case scenario we would still only be very marginally worse off than selling at 250.

puddy

wheres the vat on the builders quote and wheres is your architects cost gone?

so as i asked before, are you planning for 2 beds, 1 reception and a separate kitchen for both the flats,,,, what are your current room sizes

Fire_Fox

cottlad wrote: »

Without accurate measurements i would say that each of the 2 flats we MAY end up creating would be around 35% bigger than any of the above links and finished to just as good a design/standard

Do you even know how much travertine tiles and granite worktops cost to supply and fit? How on earth are you going to do that within your £2K per flat budget? £60K plus VAT is over £70K and you still haven't accounted for the costs of the mortgage whilst you convert. That is a basic first time developer error (watch some Sarah Beeny on 4OD), it is part of the build costs as if you sold quickly at a reduced price you would no longer be paying the mortgage, but if you move out you are paying rent as well.

Look, we think you have a stunning property there already and you admitted it was incredibly badly packaged. What have you got to lose by redecorating the worst aspects, sacking the estate agent and getting some decent photos taken? You can apply for planning permission at the same time if you wish. BTW I have just remembered you will also need a party wall agreement with the neighbour.

puddy

Even looking at a worst case scenario we would still only be very marginally worse off than selling at 250.

except you would give yourself a mental illness and a heart attack with the stress of it all as well