NRPP's children & access

GobbledyGook

Hi all

I just wanted to quickly clarify something please.

My ex is now living with someone who has 2 children and is seeking a reduction on maintenance for our children on that basis.

Her eldest is 18 (will be 19 in May) and is currently in American on a gap year before starting uni in September. Her youngest is 17 and has recently been expelled from school. He has started working in McDonalds and has no plans (to his mother's annoyance) to go to college. Can he claim this reduction when 1 "child" is an adult and isn't in the house and the younger one is working?

Also I've received a letter from his solicitor stating he wants to collect my girls from school/nursery on a Friday and drop them off there on a Monday. He also wants them for two thirds of the holidays to give us "equal quality time" with them. How am I supposed to take them anywhere like the zoo if I never have them at the weekend? He also wants this to start asap, but he hasn't seen the girls for a good while so I want him to start by taking them out for the afternoon etc - not just disappear with them for a weekend.

He also wants this arrangement to include the baby I am currently carrying and the letter states that he expects this arrangement to begin when the baby is 4 weeks old??? I'm not having my newborn (that I intend to breastfeed) away from me all weekend every weekend - especially when he recently intended to dispute paternity, but changed his mind when I found out I was having a boy (his first son).

Can I object to these arrangements? Do I tell him when I think is appropriate or do I just say no and let him get back to me with another suggestion?

He has also told me verbally that it is "none of my business" when I asked where he would be staying with the children or who would be looking after them while he worked if he had to over a weekend as he sometimes does.

I'm seeing my legal eagle on Wednesday, but it's going to worry me until then and folks on here had been so helpful. Thanks

Gemma

maggied_2

Hi Gemma

Sorry this still isn't sorted out! I hope you, the girls and the bump are all holding up ok

Is your X saying he wants the girls every weekend? I don't think it would be unreasonable to object to that! So he gets the fun at the weekends and you get the routine of every week? Hmmm.....And no I really don't think it's appropriate to have a BF newborn away for a whole weekend. The fact that he hasn't seen his daughters since the split is not going to do him any favours. Have your daughters met his new partner? Are they going to be alright with not seeing you from Friday morning until Monday evening straightaway?

It might be easier if you offered an alternative instead of just turning him flat down - bear in mind that he may be trying the trick of asking for everything full in the knowledge that it won't all be agreed to IYSWIM.

What about suggesting alternate weekends and 50% of the holidays?

I suppose strictly speaking it's not your business (and I mean that in the nicest possible way ) where the girls are when they're with him but he could let you know out of basic bl00dy courtesy - especially as this is such a new arrangement. From the other side (I'm an NRPP) my DSD's mother is always trying to stop me from spending time alone with her and she's no right to do so.

With regards to the NRPP's children - if the 17 yo is working full time (and therefore the mother can no longer claim CB) then I don't see how he could be included in the calculation. I'm fairly sure once the eldest has turned 19 then they will also be excluded.

I hope that helps

C xx

GobbledyGook

Thanks C

I'm not trying to stop his new partner seeing them. They haven't met her as in "this is Daddy's girlfriend" (he hasn't seen them since he moved in with her), but they have met her previously briefly as we used to be part of the same group of friends. I think its far too early to introduce his new girlfriend into their lives, but I accept I have no control over that.

They've never been away from me for more than 1 night and that was with my PIL so I'm not sure how they'll cope just suddenly going away all weekend. My younger daughter has been particularly clingy since the split.

There's also no way I'm not BF'ing my newborn when he arrives just to suit his father. I don't think a BF'ed newborn should be away from their mother overnight in the early days never mind all weekend.

It's not that I'll object to her spending time with them, but surely I have a right to know who will be looking after them if/when he's not there?

I think offering an alternative arrangement is probably right, but I'm not happy with alternate weekends and 50% of the holidays right away. I think he should build up the nights rather than just suddenly taking them at the weekend.

It's is unreasonable of me to suggest that arrangements for the girls should be separate from the baby in the beginning? I don't want him away from me overnight at 4 weeks old.

Thanks for the info about the NRPP's children. I've also just realised that having the children every weekend and 2/3 of the holidays would also put a great reduction on his CSA - gah he's got me so suspicious I'm wondering if that's partly why he wants so much.

Thanks. Gemma

GobbledyGook

Sorry C meant to add. We're all doing ok. Youngest is a bit clingy, but that's to be expected. They are both very excited about having a brother. Gemma

maggied_2

I agree it needs to be built up - surely he can't think he can pick up where he dropped off but with a new woman on the scene - how confusing for your daughters. I think he needs to start with afternoons out etc and then after that overnights but one night at a time to give them time to adjust.

The overnights will obviously reduce his CM liability - however even if the overnights were split exactly 50/50 he would still need to pay you.

I don't think anyone would force you to have your newborn away overnight at all. If it were me I don't think I could consider it until, what? 6 months at least (I'm not a mum myself but even that sounds very early!).

I don't think he 'has' to let you know what the children are doing (in the same way you wouldn't have to disclose to him where they were all the time) but I think it would be poilte of him to let you know. I suppose the angle is that he is their father and therefore you have to trust him to make the right decisions about your daughters' care, unless you have good reason not to.

He's not going to make life easy for himself if he's being so obstructive and uncommunicative now, especially while your daughters are so young.

I think to begin with then maybe a few afternoons out (possibly without his new partner), then introduce her, then when the girls are comfortable with that THEN consider overnights.

Not to be over dramatic but I remember your first few posts and your X has selfishly turned his childrens' lives upside down (and yours, I know). Are you still out of the family home by the way? He can't just not see them for several months and then expect to waltz back in with a new partner and frankly he's being completely pigheaded and self centred to think that he can.

Of course he should see them regularly, and if you can work something out then it will be to your childrens' benefit to have a good relationship with both parents. However I do think you are right to object to what he is proposing at this point in time, particularly with respect to his treatment of your daughters.

Kimitatsu

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Hi all

I just wanted to quickly clarify something please.

My ex is now living with someone who has 2 children and is seeking a reduction on maintenance for our children on that basis.

Her eldest is 18 (will be 19 in May) and is currently in American on a gap year before starting uni in September. Her youngest is 17 and has recently been expelled from school. He has started working in McDonalds and has no plans (to his mother's annoyance) to go to college. Can he claim this reduction when 1 "child" is an adult and isn't in the house and the younger one is working?

Hiya Gemma

No he cant claim a reduction in maintenance as neither of them are in full time education and therefore could be reasonably expected to get a job. If one is on a gap year in the USA then she is not being looked after at home and it would be the same as going to Uni, the other has a job and therefore does not need to be maintained by your ex.

Also I've received a letter from his solicitor stating he wants to collect my girls from school/nursery on a Friday and drop them off there on a Monday. He also wants them for two thirds of the holidays to give us "equal quality time" with them. How am I supposed to take them anywhere like the zoo if I never have them at the weekend? He also wants this to start asap, but he hasn't seen the girls for a good while so I want him to start by taking them out for the afternoon etc - not just disappear with them for a weekend.

he is trying it on IMO, the courts would uphold just what you are saying that you need to have them at the weekends and holidays too - offer him alternate weekends and half the holidays, providing it does not have an adverse affect on the children. If he kicks up a fuss then call his bluff and go down the CAFCASS route, if he is not making regular plans to see his children now then there is no way that they would recommend the contact that he is suggesting. Bear in mind that if he has not seen them for a good while then they will be scared and worried as to where Mum is, so suggest an afternoon a week first after school, then one day at the weekend and build it up from there.

He also wants this arrangement to include the baby I am currently carrying and the letter states that he expects this arrangement to begin when the baby is 4 weeks old??? I'm not having my newborn (that I intend to breastfeed) away from me all weekend every weekend - especially when he recently intended to dispute paternity, but changed his mind when I found out I was having a boy (his first son).

Bluntly - he can "expect" what he likes but it doesnt mean that it will happen :rotfl:
Can I object to these arrangements? Do I tell him when I think is appropriate or do I just say no and let him get back to me with another suggestion?

You tell him what you think is appropriate, as the PWC you hold the cards here especially as he has not been maintaining regular contact with them.

He has also told me verbally that it is "none of my business" when I asked where he would be staying with the children or who would be looking after them while he worked if he had to over a weekend as he sometimes does.

yes it is - if he was to tell you he would have his parents look after the children whilst he was at work surely that would be acceptable? Then the children would have a stable environment to be in where they already have a relationship, considering he has not long moved in with this partner, your concern could be that you dont want the girls being let down in the event that it did not work out.

I'm seeing my legal eagle on Wednesday, but it's going to worry me until then and folks on here had been so helpful. Thanks

Gemma

The courts will always rule in the best interest of the child, so as long as you are not blocking contact then all of the above fears are legitimate and he has to be seen to address them. Given the fact that he has not maintained contact and has moved in with another partner relatively quickly would give me cause for concern about the childrens emotional welfare. Sorry to say this but I know it has all been amicable up to now, but he could start to get a bit snotty about it all.

When my ex husband had a new partner, I got her to meet the boys at my house, then gradually they built up days out and then going to stay at their place. Mine however were older than newborns and it would be unreasonable to expect a newborn to be taken from a breast feeding mother for more than a few hours, contact can gradually be built up as little one gets older.

In your shoes, I would offer him 50% weekends (girls to be home Sunday evening), 50% of the holidays providing that if he is working his parents are willing to help with childcare (because unless he gets 6 weeks holiday a year, he will have to work some of it, and I cant imagine that new partner will want his kids on all their holidays with them as hers are grown up) and daytime contact with baby starting at 3 months old and increasing as he gets older (with the proviso he is welcome to visit before then). As he has not seen the girls regularly put together a calender of contact for him to build the relationship again (flexible according to the girls reaction).

Personally I would put that together and then not give much ground as you have been seen to be more than reasonable, have you told school/nursery that he is not to pick them up unless you tell them? Just a thought that he may try it on!

Hope it all goes well Gemma!

Kimi
xx

Thanks for the info about the NRPP's children. I've also just realised that having the children every weekend and 2/3 of the holidays would also put a great reduction on his CSA - gah he's got me so suspicious I'm wondering if that's partly why he wants so much

just seen this bit too - almost certainly if I am being honest. For every night he has them in a week averaged out over the year then he gains a reduction in maintenance, so having them every other weekend will mean that he would average 1/7 reduction in maintenance. Sounds like he has someone giving him "advice" so stick to your guns - remember the court will always rule in the best interests of the child.

missmontana

This is just my opinion, but it does sound like he's trying every trick in the book to get away without having to pay as much for his children.
I doubt it, but his new gf's children might possibly be taken into account if they are both living there, but it won't be for long at the age they are.
I agree he needs to build up a relationship with the girls again, maybe one night a week would be good to start with, and of course you have every right to know where and who the children are with at all times.
I take it you already know his new gf, if so, are you happy with them spending time at her home? You do have control over it, I always said to my ex when he was first with his gf that I didn't want her staying over while he had my son there (it was a one bed flat and they'd not been together long) which he accepted.
As for the newborn, how on earth would he cope with the 2 girls and being up potentially every 2 hours in the night to do feeds etc??

13Kent

I agree with Miss Montana, I think he's after reducing maintenance. Either that or he's asking for more than he knows he will get hoping to come to a better arrangement than if he initially only asked for half weekends and hols and you negotiated over that.

The reality of having a newborn as we all well know is completely different to the rose tinted view of a smiley happy baby sleeping through the night. Many babies in the early days will only settle with Mummy nearby anyway. (My babies slept next to me in their cot for the best part of their first years). Is it likely that he would cope with the nighttime feeds etc? Anyway, I can't see anyone agreeing to having a newborn taken from it's mother at such an early age, and probably by the time the details were thrashed out by the powers that be and the arrangement made the baby will be much older I'm sure!!

He obviously needs a certain amount of contact if he is going to build up a bond with the new baby, but that could always happen with you there too - maybe at his parents as you seem to get on well with them and they are very supportive.

Sorry to hear about your latest troubles. Hope you get it sorted soon. Keep strong!

GobbledyGook

Thanks all. Everytime I feel like the girls and I are getting back on track he knocks us down.

We're not back in the family home. I seriously considered it, but then I decided I'd rather we were a bit cramped here than relying on him paying the mortgage on the house.

There's no way I can stop contact with the girlfriend because he's living in her house. I'm not happy with her around my children as I think it's too soon and I've never, ever liked the way she's spoken about or too her own children. At the moment though I'm figuring she's a battle I don't need.

If he was going to have his parents minding them while he worked I'd be happy, but he won't because he's not speaking to them. I just think it's absolutely pointless him taking them on weekends where he has to work so they stay with some random babysitter.

He text me last night to "make sure" I'd got the letter and had told my eldest he was picking her up from school on Friday. He wanted to make plans for the youngest and seems gobsmacked that I've told him he's not having them this weekend as there were still things to work out. He thinks building up to overnights is nonsense and maintains it's none of my business where they will be staying (since I don't officially know where he's living) and who'll have them if he's not around.

He thinks he'll cope with the baby as his girlfriend had her two sleeping through the night by 10 weeks none of this "pandering to them nonsense" that I did with ours. Which has killed his chances of having our baby overnight for a long time.

So he's decided he's going down the no access = no maintenance route which is bloody rich given he's not bothered to see them for weeks and weeks now.

Sorry for bending all your ears so much, think it might still be a long road.

Gemma x

missmontana

Oh he sounds like a right charmer!! But he won't be able to get away with not paying for them I'm afraid, maybe its best if they don't see him for a while, will give you a chance to get organised and settled before the baby arrives.
Sorry but i don't know all the background behind your story.

What's going to be your next step? CSA?

13Kent

"PANDERING TO THEM NONSENSE" !!!!

What an awful thing to say - everybody finds their own way when bringing up their babies and does what suits them and what is best for their particular situation.

However, it's easy for her to tell him what she supposedly did and how wonderful she was with her babies when he wasn't there to see it!! Mmm - wonder if that really happened??!!

It's awful that he is telling your little girls what will happen and then when you say no you turn out to be the baddie not letting daddy see them - that's manipulative and he is not thinking about his girls welfare by using them like that - he should be ashamed!

If the CSA are involved then he will have to pay maintenance whether he sees them or not. Sounds like as much as I hate the CSA for what they have done to my OH I think it might be your next step too! Once you open the case he will be liable for arrears if he does not pay what they ask.