ESA: how am I supposed to live?

jennilb

Hi Heros

The decision makers (according to a research paper recently released by the government) often 'go along' with the Atos medical report, because they feel that they can't decide that the DWP's medical people know less than the specialists who write in to them.

From the sounds of what you've said, I think you have a very good chance with an appeal, provided you can explain clearly to the tribunal panel how your MH conditions affect you.

Have you considered keeping a very detailed diary, say for a couple of weeks, of how your conditions affect you? Then, when you get to the tribunal, you're not going to have to rely on your memory or saying 'well sometimes this happens' you can say 'I don't have very good short-term memory, so I was worried I'd forget to tell you important stuff about what this is like, so I've written this diary over the last couple of weeks and I'd be grateful if you take a look at it'. If you take 4 copies of it then each person on the panel can have their own copy and you can have one too.

You could even mark up your own one with different colours to help you identify bits to point out to them. So if they ask about whether you can get washed and dressed OK you can have a code that tells you, say, 'pink is about self-care' and then you can scan through the pink sections until you find bits that show how you cope / don't cope with this, and then you can point those bits out to the tribunal.

Two more points of interest:
1) The tribunal is supposed to be assessing how fit you were at the date of your medical not on the day they see you. So even if you get a little bit better between now and the tribunal with your new intensive programme, they aren't meant to be looking at that.

2) If its been longer than 6 months since they made the decision to stop ESA, even if all the time in between you were on ESA awaiting an appeal... once its been 6 months, you can re-apply even if its for the same medical condition and even if its not got singificantly worse than last time, provided your GP (or whoever) will write the sick note. So, as they are currently taking (in my area at least) 6 months+ to go from decision to tribunal, that means you can reclaim without needing to go on JSA in the meantime.

Its a crazy system, when people on intensive chemo are being found fit for work (according to a report by Mcmillan and the CAB), so its no wonder the Atos people haven't got a clue with conditions they can't actually see.

Good luck with the treatment and with keeping your money going so that you can focus on getting well and getting safe.

Jenni

daska

herosjourney wrote: »

they're putting me into this in-between programme which requires me to attend the psychiatric unit from 10am to 5pm monday to friday as part of an intensive 'therapeutic community' where i'll have hours of intensive therapy. this programme lasts 12 months. That alone would render me unavailable for full-time work. If I don't attend this programme the doctors have said I'll probably have to go back on the acute psychiatric ward for another stint.

This would surely count as evidence that you're not fit to work and at least that you're not available to work. Have they put this in writing?

metalgal

have you looked into income support instead of ESA? You would get much more money on it. You should really look into it, unless you are living with a partner who works.

Indie_Kid

metalgal wrote: »

have you looked into income support instead of ESA? You would get much more money on it. You should really look into it, unless you are living with a partner who works.

You can't get income support for reasons of incapacity for new claims.

dmg24

nogginthenog wrote: »

You can write to the GMC and ask about the qualifications of the ATOS medic. to Start with!
Make sure the person concernd was a mental health expert. If they were not mention this at your next appeal.
As a last resort you can also go to a judicial review. You only need to cite you believe the decision was unreasonable or irrational.
BE WARNED This could be very expensiive if you loose.
Take proffesional Advice.

Take a look at this their may be something you can use in it, At the very least it may give you some hope that things will change.
Decision Making and Appeals in the Benefits System

This is nonsense - there is no requirement for the medical examiner to be a MH expert. Furthermore, you can only appeal beyond the Tribunal on a point of law.

happyinflorida

OMG heros, I'm so sorry to read of all your problems and then the ESA
c--p on top!

I've been to my 1st ESA medical and passed and now am going for a 2nd one next week for part 2, to see my attitude towards working I think?!! It is a totally mad system and I have been literally pulling my hair out with worry over all of this.

I did find a website though which was a godsend

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk

I did pay the money to join, I think it was £18.95 (sorry if that's wrong but my memory is very bad too!) but it was so worth it for the expert help on there and reading up on everything to do with ESA and lots of other benefit information such as DLA etc.

From what I've read so far on there it is nothing new or unusual to be found as fit for work (?!!) and not to pass the medical. There is so much advice on there as to how to appeal, it is really good in that area as there is so much of this going on.

It's so reassuring and helpful - I'm not a sales agent for them, I promise!!

I just want to spread the word about this site as it's been so useful for me.

Just remember you are not alone and there are many, many people like you out there, who at a time they should be getting help are getting kicked in the teeth by this rotten goverment - this makes me so angry!

At least the team you have supporting you sound wonderful and helpful, so keep at it and don't let them ( the rotters in Downing street")win!

Ivy89

I wouldn't hold out much hope. I have Social anxiety and my counseller suggested I try for it but I decided against it. However my mother tried for it when she had her breakdown with clinical depression and the way she was acting made it obvious she wasn't fit for work, yet they refused her. My grandmother tried for it too when she was ill with leukemia and got refused, and she died a year later. Yet a neighbour is claiming hes partially blind and cant walk properly because of a "bad leg" and hes been getting it no problem for years.It's really unfair when theres so many people, like yourself, especially with mental health problems , that cant get it.

cozza

I quite agree with you ivy89 coz they can see you look normal on the outside they think yep you ok to work but its wots going on inside your head so i think they need to look in to more about mental illnesses
I to did have a struggle with bad depression due to a breakdown and the hassle i got from ATOS saying i was fit to work when my doctor was saying there was no way i can find work as i was likley to have a go at someone if they annoyed me or was rude to me only you yourself know when you are ready for work

nogginthenog

dmg24 wrote: »

This is nonsense - there is no requirement for the medical examiner to be a MH expert. Furthermore, you can only appeal beyond the Tribunal on a point of law.

I never said it was!. ....And if you read the link in full you will see it might be a consideration in the future.

And it certainly will do no harm to mention or question the fact of the medics qualifications in any appeal OR JUDICIAL REVIEW for anyone. and everyone concerned.

And how do you know their isnt a point of law without having the full AND COMPRIHENSIVE details from the OP.

And if you do not feel the law is in the right, their is always the Judicial Review route,

And God only Knows why your post was thanked, a made up answer to a imaginary post.

yellowduck_2

I got it (ESA) after my first medical but now they have written to me and I have to go through the whole process again as I am now meant to be "better" according to them, I was assessed as "probably work ready within 6 months". Terrified that they will stop my ESA and make me go on to JSA, I have mental and physical health issues, am in late middle age and have worked for over 30 years, only ever not worked while at uni and while my boy was a baby (even did temp and part time stuff then). Good luck to the OP, it is a stressful process.