The Gifted and Talented Register in schools

Spendless

Gingham_Ribbon wrote: »

It's not just the music though, which may or may not be important. If he's gifted in science, there are loads of things the NAGC can advise about and meetings that he could go to with other kids who are interested in the same things.

I'd not really thought about the science, as he already does several science based things, from the tv programmes he watches to the books he reads to the models he makes. I've seen both Horrible Science and a Brainiac live shows and are going to book and see them this year. He will do the Science workshop day at the local Secondary school during the Easter hols with several children from feeder primarys who are also showing an ability in Science and will be at this school in 18 months time with its Science facilities (no qualms about getting him in as it's our catchment area school and we live within the boundary).

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Spotting intervals is not a particularly easy skill - you may have learned it, but the others may not - yet. Being able to hear the difference between a root note, a major third and a perfect fifth, knowing that you've just heard a triad with a major third and a perfect fifth and being able to play a chord comprising C, E & G are all completely separate skills. (sounds good, though, doesn't it? )

Add the complication of singing the darn thing back and it seems fair to accept that they have spotted a hint of promise there.

Although, I have to say that being able to spot talent from a school violin must be pretty hard - I have been one of those parents at the teatime concerts with a fixed smile on her face for the kids doing violin, secretly thinking 'Oh no, will this make my eardrums cry for mercy?', but determined to try and look supportive as the strangled sounds escape from the front, thinking 'thank goodness for that' as they finish and a kid with some other instrument comes on stage. I know it's mean, and the only way they will get confidence and get better is with practice, but it really is uncomfortable listening - much like innovative jazz of the 50s, I suppose [shudder] .

Perhaps your DS will have something else he would enjoy playing in the future, like bass guitar? Just because he's played violin he isn't restricted to it permanently, after all!

I'll have to ask but I'm not completely sure he did play. From what I've been told it was humming back the notes he heard on the piano as well as the way he held the violin.

I have wondered before if he is bettr suited to playing a different instrument but he said he likes classical musical best.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

There would be the chance to go onto viola, cello or double bass - all of which are slightly less agonising to my ears....

Savvy_Sue

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Although, I have to say that being able to spot talent from a school violin must be pretty hard - I have been one of those parents at the teatime concerts with a fixed smile on her face for the kids doing violin, secretly thinking 'Oh no, will this make my eardrums cry for mercy?', but determined to try and look supportive as the strangled sounds escape from the front, thinking 'thank goodness for that' as they finish and a kid with some other instrument comes on stage. I know it's mean, and the only way they will get confidence and get better is with practice, but it really is uncomfortable listening - much like innovative jazz of the 50s, I suppose [shudder] .

:rotfl: Me and you both JoJo! And why do they teach recorders so widely - they are only SLIGHTLY better than violins! :rotfl:

But if it's any comfort, I really think the violin is THE most difficult one both to learn and to have to listen to someone else learning.

Spendless wrote: »

I have wondered before if he is bettr suited to playing a different instrument but he said he likes classical musical best.

But there is SUCH a wide range of classical music - classical guitar, for instance, and many of the wind instruments (although for some of them it's best to have all your teeth in before you start!)

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

There would be the chance to go onto viola, cello or double bass - all of which are slightly less agonising to my ears....

Of those 3, I'd recommend Viola, always in demand, yet still portable! :rotfl:

dizziblonde

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

:rotfl: Me and you both JoJo! And why do they teach recorders so widely - they are only SLIGHTLY better than violins! :rotfl:

Oh God... I know I'm a primary teacher, but hell to me will be a room full of three thousand 6 year olds with el-cheapo-plastico recorders and only knowing 2 notes!

They teach them because they're cheap, easily accessible for all families to get their hands on, easily disinfected if we've got a school bank of them and nigh-on indestructible (I've still got the one I learnt on as a kid in my car boot). It's the whole stepping stone to move onto other things dealie.

Occarinas are slightly less painful on the ears (the little-hands version of a recorder the real littlies start on).

jellyhead

my teenager bought an ocarina and it sounds lovely. it's ceramic though, so it's got chips in it from where he puts it in his pocket then forgets about it. recorders are more hardwearing!

Savvy_Sue

jellyhead wrote: »

my teenager bought an ocarina and it sounds lovely. it's ceramic though, so it's got chips in it from where he puts it in his pocket then forgets about it. recorders are more hardwearing!

My student son bought one too, when his headphones broke. No, that doesn't make any sense to me either, but apparently he played it while walking to campus instead of listening to his i-pod.

They would fit into a pocket rather better than a recorder, of course.

Spendless

I'll have to ask him but AFAIK he had no choice in what instrument he learnt, he said he tried out before for others and only got thru (by accident) for learning the violin. I *think* because he was already learning the violin in yr4 when it came to everyone in yr5 learning an instrument he was kept with the violin as he was already playing it.

Spendless

Update-- I never made the music parents evening as someone ran into the back of my car that day and DH was away but I've spoken to the HT at son's school. He said that the decision to put him on the G&T register will have been a joint one between the music co-ordinator at the school (the musical teacher I mentioned) and DS's actual music teacher who come in to teach. HT quizzed DS a bit more and said the reason will be due to a natural ability and if he can acheive this thru not doing any practise for him to have a think about how good he'd be if he actually did put some effort in.

I have to say that is a DS failing though, can get high marks relatively easy so doesn't bother putting in the extra.

I mentioned the maths, what his lower school teacher said, what I'd witnessed and the HT agreed the music ability would be coming thru the maths. I mentioned that DS didn't seem to be as keen on maths as he once was and the HT asked DS why and DS said he's finding it more difficult. The HT said to me that numeracy does start being more difficult in years 5 and 6. He said it's at a level he only did at secondary school. Having not seen anything I'm unable to form a view of that. The HT also said cos DS has the extra class as a follow on from last year, if he wasn't upto scratch then I'd have had letters home telling me about it as the outside music teachers are not shy about saying kids need to practise more if they are to continue teaching them.

We've also shedded more light on 'why the violin and not something else'. Each class in DS's year there are 3 did a different type of instrument, 1 did brass, 1 did flutes and DS's did violin and a few cellos. As there was only a few cellos it was a case of put your hand up and some kids randomly selected, and Ds wasn't chosen

[Deleted User]

I don't know much about the T&G scheme but it doesn't look like good news

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/feb/02/gifted-talented-scrapped-funds-redirected

This article says the scheme is being scrapped. Altho of course, a General Election could change that.

Gingham_Ribbon

This comment shows exactly why the G and T scheme in schools isn't working:

Paul Luxmoore, headteacher, Dane Court grammar school, Broadstairs, Kent
I've always been sceptical about the gifted and talented programme. I felt it was a bit of a gimmick. Good schools develop and stretch the most able students as a normal part of what they do. Not without knowing how to identify them and provide adequate resources they don't.
Like many schools, we've played along with the game of having a gifted and talented register, NO KIDDING It's not a game to the kids who really need the help but the issue of which pupils are on it has always been contentious.
Teachers will always disagree about how you identify a gifted child so you end up relying on data. But what do you do if a child has a disappointing set of exam results – take them off the register? Giftedness has little to do with good exam results. When will people actually listen to the experts and deal with this problem. Bright, hardworking kids can get the best grades in exams. Disaffected, bored gifted kids often don't even show up on the radar.
I don't think anyone will miss the gifted and talented academy. I'm not convinced many colleagues knew exactly what it was anyway. And there's the crux of the problem. It is a soft target that will largely go unnoticed by the public, and that's what's worrying. I can't help wondering if this is the first of cuts that will have a much bigger impact on schools.

It's bad enough that such a high number of parents of gifted kids are having to pay for private ed or home schooling but this is a huge step backwards. The scheme hasn't been very good - poor in fact. But at least it's something. And with more awareness and training, it could have been something that helped kids who need it, rather than giving support to high achievers.

Re the pushy parents nonsense that gets floated around - there are plenty of them. We've all met them. But you can't 'push' a gifted kid. They drag you behind them running flat out trying to keep up.