The Gifted and Talented Register in schools

Spendless

My 10yo son (yr 5) has just been identified as being G & T in science and music.
Now Science I can understand, his favourite programmes are Brainiac, Air Crash Investigation, Prototype this, Scrapheap challenge. He amazes us with scientific facts and figures. He creates k'nex models out of his head (not what's on the box) that can move and wind things up. He's been selected for the 2nd year running to go to a 'workshop' day at the local secondary school which specialises in science.

But Music I'm lost. He plays the violin The school he is at is very musical, they have won awards and play in music festivals. My son is never ever selected to go. He only got in to violin lessons by accident. the school has #try-outs' to see if you are selected when they are going to start introducing another instrument and DS was told by another child he'd got thru to violin lessons when he hadn't and the teacher only spotted the mistake weeks later so let him stay. DS rarely ever practices his instrument and when I do hear him play there's plenty of screeching. He's been having violin lessons at school for the past year.

During another discussion on MSE I was told that the G & T register is the top x% for their school, so in another school where children were better than science than my DS would mean he wouldn't be on the G & T register for it and vice versa. I'd think this must be what has happened with DS and music if the school wasn't so good at music themselves iyswim. My husband went to the parents evening where DS's teacher told him and said that DS had had an assessment and it was to do with the way he held his violin. DS said they were played a tune on the piano and had to him it back.

I am not the slightest bit musical myself and I admit to being flummoxed.

and just in case this thread gets moved to DT, I'm asking in here not only because I know a lot of teachers go on this board but because I need to know if it is true do I need to spend money on more lesons.

kayke_dee

does your child enjoy playing the violin? only reason i ask is, i played saxophone at school and enjoyed playing it until i got to the age of it not being cool having lessons instead of being with friends, and i often used to miss my lessons, which for some time my parents were unaware of yet still payed for. Good on your son for being gifted in both subjects, but make sure its what he wants to persue otherwise it could get very pricey.

Spendless

AFAIK he enjoys it. At his school all year 5 children play but because he started lessons in yr 4 he has an additional lesson (eg a school lesson, plus a separate one). When I asked him why he likes the violin he said it's because he likes classical music. I'm just flummoxed as to why he is on a G & T register for music when I hear evidence otherwise (on the rare occassions he practices at home).:rotfl:

Artytarty

Musical means not necessarily good at playing the instrument but its more that he has a natural sense of rhythm and timing.
He has a good ear and can pitch a note. he will know in a sequence if the next note played was higher /lower than the previous.
its an inate talent and something that many people struggle to learn , for him its natural!
It means that he has musical potential (not nec. on violin) not that he is a great player/ singer/ whatever at present.
It may be the violin is no the instrument for him but he should be able to get many years of pleasure from music if he finds the opportunity/ encouragement.
good luck!

Savvy_Sue

Violins are an evil instrument to learn, and you have my sympathy ...

I wouldn't pay for extra lessons unless HE wants them and is prepared to practise!

DS3 was on the register for English, which flummoxed me, because I didn't think he'd ever written enough to show any ability ...

Curious_George_2

im not a teacher but maybe they have seen some natural talent in him (talent that is easily hidden from you when all you hear is a screechy violin! lol)

my DD is doing a forensic science course today for a select group of our areas G&T children and believe me a letter arriving from the schools "co-ordinator for more able children" was more than a shock!

rze1979

You are quite right spendless when you say its the top XX% of a cohort/year group. Its the top 10% so in a 1 form entry school with a class of 30, then 3 kids would be identified as g&t for each subject. The argument is that it should be called 'more able' because teachers now have to identify the top 10% they won't all necessarily be gifted - maybe just better than their peers.
A child identified as g&t in school A possibly would not be identified in school B if there are children who are deemed as better/more able in that school.

If your son is not interested in learning the violin then I would not bother with lessons. When he gets to secondary school and there are far more children in his cohort see if he is still considered as g&t - if so then maybe think about lessons then (if he wants to of course!!)

Spendless

Artytarty wrote: »

Musical means not necessarily good at playing the instrument but its more that he has a natural sense of rhythm and timing.
He has a good ear and can pitch a note. he will know in a sequence if the next note played was higher /lower than the previous.
its an inate talent and something that many people struggle to learn , for him its natural!
It means that he has musical potential (not nec. on violin) not that he is a great player/ singer/ whatever at present.
It may be the violin is no the instrument for him but he should be able to get many years of pleasure from music if he finds the opportunity/ encouragement.
good luck!

Thanks for the explanation Artytarty. That made a lot of sense and I've now questioned DS more about his assessment. He said they did exactly what you've said, someone played a sequence of notes on the piano and he hummed them back.

Out of interest is this connected to maths at all do you know or does anyone else? DS was good at maths from an early age, which was noted on his reports in yr 3 but he seems to have lost that ability lately though he has claimed it is due to noise levels in his class (and if that's true then I sympathise, I do a lot of courses as a mature student and have the same problem!)

To answer someone else he is in a (very) oversubscibed 2 form school. There are 80 children in his year (millennium babies and 2 sets of multiple birth children!). There are 3 classes to his school year for this reason.

By chance we have got a parents evening for his music lessons come through the post today so I'll talk to them more about it and leave the extra lessons alone for now. Especially since he already does 2 x lessons a week and cos they are thru school they are free.

Out of interest Sue what happened when your son got older did his ability for English become more clear or not?

But thank you everyone for your input. His teacher is sometimes [STRIKE]dizzy[/STRIKE] disorganised (but really fab in other ways) so I wasn't completely convinced that they hadn't mixed the wrong child's name with the results. :rotfl:

csh_2

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

DS3 was on the register for English, which flummoxed me, because I didn't think he'd ever written enough to show any ability ...

My DD's Computer teacher told me last week at the parents evening that DD has 'a brilliance in this subject I've never seen before' and that she 'couldn't understand it'!
You and me both hen!

DD just looked at her like she had 2 heads and when we came out she said 'didn't think I was even very good!'

sneezyboots

rze1979 wrote: »

You are quite right spendless when you say its the top XX% of a cohort/year group. Its the top 10% so in a 1 form entry school with a class of 30, then 3 kids would be identified as g&t for each subject.

not completely true. some schools operate a % rule. others operate a 'well above average for age rule' or some let the teachers do as they please. i have worked in both. in my current class there is no specific rule, just anybody who particularly needs extending beyond the norm in a particular subject so we are aware of that when planning, just as you have a list of children with SEN who we make provision for. It is just there to ensure you are differentiating your planning enough upwards as well as downwards. I have a few subjects where i have not put any children on the list and a couple where i have more.

Savvy_Sue

Spendless wrote: »

Out of interest is this connected to maths at all do you know or does anyone else?

Yes, music and maths often go together, although not always. All mine are above average at maths (possibly VERY above average) but it's only DS3 who shows any interest in music - a few violin and piano lessons have enabled him to teach himself guitar, although I think his piano teacher was fab in making sure he understood the principles he'd need for that.

When I was rowing at Uni, and occasionally coxing novice crews, I would always try to get a musician at stroke, in the hope they'd have a sense of rhythm. Failing that I'd go for a mathematician who might be able to count ... :rotfl:

Spendless wrote: »

DS was good at maths from an early age, which was noted on his reports in yr 3 but he seems to have lost that ability lately though he has claimed it is due to noise levels in his class (and if that's true then I sympathise, I do a lot of courses as a mature student and have the same problem!)

That is definitely something I'd want to raise with the school.

Spendless wrote: »

Out of interest Sue what happened when your son got older did his ability for English become more clear or not?

His verbal abilities have always been clear, and have only got better - not only could he talk the hind leg off a donkey, but it would be intelligent and reasoned talk, even if his position is apparently untenable. Even when he starts a sentence with "But that's just stupid" he goes on to explain why it's stupid, and why the world would be so much better if he was in control. :rotfl:

He just won't write things down unless he has to, and there was serious concern that he might fail his GCSE English. He got an E at the end of year 10 and a D in his mocks, just because he thought "This is boring" and spent the time daydreaming. :mad: In the end he got a B, which isn't a true reflection of his abilities, but is good enough.

He did Sociology AS level and was supposed to be doing it to A2, but he got fed up of all the essays, so his teacher agreed that he could keep coming to lessons but not take the exams. It's helpful to have someone willing to sound off on the subject, I think ...

Personally I don't think his written English is as good as his brothers - he's a bit text-y, whereas both his brothers spell and punctuate everything properly, even in text messages and emails and IMs (as I do!) But the content is always very thoughtful.

csh wrote: »

My DD's Computer teacher told me last week at the parents evening that DD has 'a brilliance in this subject I've never seen before' and that she 'couldn't understand it'!
You and me both hen!

DD just looked at her like she had 2 heads and when we came out she said 'didn't think I was even very good!'

:rotfl: