Who is liable? Sewage problem!

saxman

I bought my house 4 years ago.
My solicitor completed all checks and evrything seemed fine.
In the last year, it came to light that there were no public sewers in my area.
I queried this with the water authority (water board searches had come back that I was connected to mains sewerage at the time I bought) and they confirmed that indeed they had no sewers in the area.
So they agreed to refund 2 years of water rates in relation to sewage disposal.
So, you might ask, what happens to my sewage?
I don't know! There are no signs of a septic tank. The house was built around 150 years ago and this has never been an issue before now.
Why is it a problem now? Because I want to sell for one. Also the Environment agency are now demanding that I install a septic tank or treatment plant, the cost of which could be as high as £10,000!!
They say it is likely that my waste is discharging into a nearby underground water culvet. However, no evidence of any pollution can be found in any nearby waters. Putting a camera down to see where it goes has proved useless as the camera could not get more than 2 metres down before hitting a tight bend.
The water board say they made a mistake and they are sorry but are not liable beyond refunding my water rates.
My solicitor says he is not liable as he did water searches and they came back clear.
The Environment Agency are telling my that it is up to me to prove how I dispose of my waste and that if I can't prove it is not going to a water course I must pay to have a treatment plant installed.
It all seems might unfair to me.
Does anyone have any experience or advice for me. Please...... I am at my wit's end with all this.

Cheers,

K

dougk_2

Your solicitor should be able to tell you who is liable. If the water company search was wrong then I would say they are and you should ask your solicitor to write to them asking for compensation in the sum of installing the required facilities and threatening legal action. The water company will be insured against mistakes so they will pass the matter on to their insurers.

saxman

dougk wrote:

Your solicitor should be able to tell you who is liable. If the water company search was wrong then I would say they are and you should ask your solicitor to write to them asking for compensation in the sum of installing the required facilities and threatening legal action. The water company will be insured against mistakes so they will pass the matter on to their insurers.

Thanks Doug,

I now have a different solicitor and I'm trying to get hold of the original search documents from the water company.
You would think that as it was their error, they are indeed liable.

K

shallowpockets

Hi Saxman

It's disgusting that no-one will accept responsibility, sorry I can't help keep us posted on how you get on and good luck.

rsvtoddy

I believe that some companies put a blue (?) dye down the drain in the house which will then enable them to track where it goes.

We're in a similar situation at our new house - no mains sewage and I 'believe' we share a neighbours septic tank. They don't know that though so I don't have to pay to have it emptied!

Debt_Free_Chick

Firstly, what did the Seller's Information Form say about drainage? There's a specific question on the form and you need to see what they said about it.

Secondly, look at the site plan for the property ... sometimes, the line of drainage pipes is shown on the plan.

Thirdly, look at the title plan/deeds. If you have shared drainage then any agreements with neighbours over maintainence & access rights will usually appear in the deeds.

Ask your neighbours where their waste drains to. If there are no mains sewers in the neighbourhood, then you're all in the same boat. So, where does theirs go? If you have a rough location from an immediate neighbour, then follow the line from your house to their house and look for inspection pits - raised bricks with a metal lid on.

The drainage almost certainly follows a downhill line and possibly heads towards a local stream. Again, follow that kind of line from your property and look for inspection pits.

I don't think that a water search will help now. It will either show that the original search was wrong and confirmed that mains drainage was connected or it will confirm it was not. Either way, that doesn't help with locating where the waste is draining to, which is your priority at the moment. If you are thinking about taking action over an incorrect search, then leave that until later. First ... find the existing drains.

The Environment Agency have you over a barrel I'm afraid. You either have to demonstrate that your waste is being disposed of without damaging the environment or you must install a waste disposal unit. Septic tanks are the only ones they will approve these days. If you have an existing cess pit which is working satisfactorily then you'll probably be allowed to keep it, but new cess pits almost certainly won't be approved.

The EA are "on your case" now, so you must find the existing drainage channels. Neighbours will probably tell you all you need to know.

Post back and let us know how you get on.

HTH

saxman

Thanks for the reply.
I have no immediate neighbours here. The ones that are close (barn conversions) have installed septic tanks.
Why the water board got it wrong is a mystery. I have studied all documents relating to the house and the culvet shown on the plan is clearly marked. The water authority said in the search that this was a combined sewer, but in fact it turns out it is only surface water.
I am almost certain that my sewage runs into this sewer as the pipe heads in that direction and in the 4 years I've been here (and for years before that) it has never backed up indicating an existing septic tank.

Thanks for confirming that the EA are correct in putting the responsibility with me to prove I am disposing of sewage properly. Although I think it is a little unfair when no pollution has ever been detected.

I have written to the water board to express my anger that they got the search result wrong back in 2002 and that as a direct consequence, I now have to shell out huge amounts of money. I may not have purchased the house had I known about this or at the least negotiated with the vendor at the time for a reduction. I do feel that they ought to be held responsible, at least in part.

I will let you know what their response is - I have given them 14 days before I begin legal action.

K

PS The "blue dye" method is not an option as the nearest inspection point further down the culvet is about half a mile away and I'm told that dye will disperse after about 50 yards.

Johnhowell

saxman wrote:

PS The "blue dye" method is not an option as the nearest inspection point further down the culvet is about half a mile away and I'm told that dye will disperse after about 50 yards.

Tracing dye does not disperse after about 50 yds because most manholes/inspection chambers on drainage systems can be up to 100-150 metres apart and the dye works very well in these, tracing complete network downstream.
You can also get red and even pink tracing dye.

John

Debt_Free_Chick

saxman wrote:

Thanks for the reply.
I have no immediate neighbours here.

This would indicate that you dispose of your own sewage - but, of course, that doesn't help with the problem. The question is how and to where is the sewage going?

The ones that are close (barn conversions) have installed septic tanks.

Which is normal for new dwellings. Since the new EA regulations (2002, I think) it's pretty much compulsory.

Why the water board got it wrong is a mystery. I have studied all documents relating to the house and the culvet shown on the plan is clearly marked. The water authority said in the search that this was a combined sewer, but in fact it turns out it is only surface water.
I am almost certain that my sewage runs into this sewer as the pipe heads in that direction and in the 4 years I've been here (and for years before that) it has never backed up indicating an existing septic tank.

The EA should be able to test the water at some point - there's bound to be evidence of raw sewage. However, you don't really want them to do that it would just confirm the problem and they may fine you for the pollution!

Surface water culvets often simply drain via soakaways and return the water back to the land, spread over a wide area. Again, wherever that area is, there will be some evidence of raw sewage - but it will break down over a period of time. After all, an old fashioned cess pit uses natural bacteria to break down the waste.

Thanks for confirming that the EA are correct in putting the responsibility with me to prove I am disposing of sewage properly. Although I think it is a little unfair when no pollution has ever been detected.

They don't need to prove that there is pollution. All they need is evidence of a sewage disposal route. If there is none, then you are required to install one. If there were evidence of pollution, you would get a fine as well as the cost of installing the septic tank. Even if you had a septic tank, if it was defective and resulted in pollution, then you'd get fined anyway :eek:

Have the EA sent you their guidance note on sewage disposal where there is no mains?

I have written to the water board to express my anger that they got the search result wrong back in 2002 and that as a direct consequence, I now have to shell out huge amounts of money. I may not have purchased the house had I known about this or at the least negotiated with the vendor at the time for a reduction. I do feel that they ought to be held responsible, at least in part.
I will let you know what their response is - I have given them 14 days before I begin legal action.

I have a feeling that you can take action, where a mistake is made with a search - but your solicitor should guide you on this. If it costs you £1,000 in legal fees to get a 50% contribution to the cost of installing a septic tank, it would be money well-spent I think.

The vendor was a little .... errrmmm.... economical with the truth, I think. But that's the problem with buying property. It's down to the buyer to find out, rather than the seller to tell. But if you still have the seller's information form, do check it out in case there was a blatant lie on the form! In that case, you may possibly have the option to take action against the vendor too. That might result in him coughing up the remaining cost of the septic tank :j But don't get your hopes up, without discussing with your solicitor.

Keep us posted, if you can.

Cheers

saxman

The EA should be able to test the water at some point - there's bound to be evidence of raw sewage. However, you don't really want them to do that it would just confirm the problem and they may fine you for the pollution!

The burn that runs underground beneath my property emerges about a half mile down stream. The water is regularly tested at some point as it runs into a major river. The water quality meets all standards and no pollution has been detected.... so say the EA.

They don't need to prove that there is pollution. All they need is evidence of a sewage disposal route. If there is none, then you are required to install one. If there were evidence of pollution, you would get a fine as well as the cost of installing the septic tank. Even if you had a septic tank, if it was defective and resulted in pollution, then you'd get fined anyway :eek:

I guess they have me here then!!!

Have the EA sent you their guidance note on sewage disposal where there is no mains?

The have sent me a letter giving me 3 options. Cess Tank, Septic Tank or Treatment Plant, the latter requiring a permit to discharge.... more money! Plus a list of local suppliers/installers.

I have a feeling that you can take action, where a mistake is made with a search - but your solicitor should guide you on this. If it costs you £1,000 in legal fees to get a 50% contribution to the cost of installing a septic tank, it would be money well-spent I think.

This seems to be the opinion of my solicitor. I just spoke with her. They made a clear cut error back in 2002 when they told me I was connected to a public sewer. I have the original search document now! I will be asking them for 100% to start off with.

The vendor was a little .... errrmmm.... economical with the truth, I think. But that's the problem with buying property. It's down to the buyer to find out, rather than the seller to tell. But if you still have the seller's information form, do check it out in case there was a blatant lie on the form! In that case, you may possibly have the option to take action against the vendor too. That might result in him coughing up the remaining cost of the septic tank :j But don't get your hopes up, without discussing with your solicitor.

I knew the vendor. Nice chap. He had no reason to believe anything was wrong as for years, he too had been paying the water authority for sewage disposal and evryone was under the impression that the house was connected to a public sewer.
So you see, the water board's error has cost a lot of people a lot of money over the years. The cost of sewage disposal via a public sewer round here is about £120 per year. If they have been charging people in this house since 1927 then that's quite a few quid!!!!

Keep us posted, if you can.

I most certainly will. Thank you all for your advice.

K

saxman

Just an interim update.
I have now found the original water search document held by my solicitor from 2002.
It states quite clearly that records show the property is connected to a public sewer.
If anyone is interested in seeing it then look HERE
I now wait for the response from the water authority. Will post here as soon as I hear anything.

K