Disabled Student's Allowance -- worth applying for mental health?

poet123

I don't disagree with you on many points, I do disagree though that everyone who gets a university place is either academically able enough, or personally suited to sustaining the effort required to obtain a degree.

Indie_Kid

I agree with you on that, Poet. I know some people who just never turned up to lecturers. I used to know someoen who wanted to go for uni for "the experience" - I think that's pointles. I want to go to uni to better myself.

bestpud

Isis_Black wrote: »

sorry but it does take a lot of work in the first place to get into university be that going through A levels as a teen or like me through an intensive 1 year access course so not everyone will get into univeristy but if it is something that someone wants to do and they have the skills to do so then they should have all the help and assistance to do so be they able bodied, disablied or have a mental illness, just because someone has some difficulity some where does not make them incapable of doing things!
For me my problems are one and off, i can have good days and i can have bad days but i will never know when these days will occur so i need to be prepared for anything to occur and the help i have been provided with wil assist me in making sure that if i do have bad days and i cannot get in then i am still able to do the work at home
I do not feel like i have an advantage over others i jsut feel that it has put me on a level playing field, and yes i am sure some are thinking how on earth will i cope with work in the future, there is a great range of things i could go into especially being self employed, but it does actually help if i am doing something i really enjoy as that helps to keep the depression at arms length.
But i will tackle anything that occurs and try to overcome the difficulites and i will get through my degree and come out the other side a much better person and have the ability to fully control, to the best of my abilities, my depression.

I don't think it's about 'difficulties' as such because some people will overcome all sorts of problems when studying.

Those people will tend to be the ones who have underlying ability and motivation though.

The type of student Poet is talking about (I think :cool:) may not actually have any recognised condition.

Some people are just not suited to HE and there can be many reasons behind that but there is also little that can be done to change the situation for them iyswim?

If they have a recognised condition, more will be done to try and help them through, and they are thus likely to get further before it is acknowledged they don't have what it takes?

There is no way of knowing for sure which students don't have the ability and which ones will succeed with the right support. I do think college tutors will have a fair idea though and perhaps it would be fairer to speak with students at that stage rather than let them embark on something that will take them out of their depth?

poet123

Thanks bestpud, that is exactly what I mean, I think that the playing field should be levelled for those with recognised issues, and that they should be offered and accept, all the help available to ensure they are not disadvanteged by their issues.

However, they, and other students without issues, may still not have the apitude/attainment level needed to study further. We all reach our level, and the trick is knowing when to stop. I think we are currently in a cycle which believes in the perennial student, and that one level completed automatically means we are capable of the next, which I dont believe is necessarily true.

Sometimes as Tutors we foster this erroneous belief unintentionally by how we encourage completion of the first level.

For example, I recently had a student who really struggled to complete the work required, and would not have achieved without great input from our support team, much greater than would be the norm. However, he and his parent had been told at enrolment that this course could eventually lead to a degree....which of course it could, but not for him, yet we then had a great issue with his parent explaining that because he had passed the course he could not auomatically progress upward, because the capability just was not there.

So, you see the dilemma, do we let the students fail the lower level courses by withdrawing support, or do we give them that support to attain a lower level qualification but along with that, the knowledge that they need to appreciate that in this subject area (but usually across the board) they cannot expect progression. It is a fine line between fostering knowledge and giving them a false sense of their own limnitations.

In many cases we fail to get the point across that they should be honest with themselves about those limitations and look for another less academic path. Sadly, in the current climate those paths are less obvious and so they forge ahead with a university application and the problems begin.

krisskross

sh1305 wrote: »

I agree with you on that, Poet. I know some people who just never turned up to lecturers. I used to know someoen who wanted to go for uni for "the experience" - I think that's pointles. I want to go to uni to better myself.

Haven't you just given up your University course? Are you really suited for it?

bestpud

krisskross wrote: »

Haven't you just given up your University course? Are you really suited for it?

I was wondering that but thought I'd perhaps missed something!

Indie_Kid

krisskross wrote: »

Haven't you just given up your University course? Are you really suited for it?

Actually, I haven't given up - I've just had to change the course I'm doing.

Please get your facts right before spoiuting rubbish.

bestpud

poet123 wrote: »

Thanks bestpud, that is exactly what I mean, I think that the playing field should be levelled for those with recognised issues, and that they should be offered and accept, all the help available to ensure they are not disadvanteged by their issues.

However, they, and other students without issues, may still not have the apitude/attainment level needed to study further. We all reach our level, and the trick is knowing when to stop. I think we are currently in a cycle which believes in the perennial student, and that one level completed automatically means we are capable of the next, which I dont believe is necessarily true.

Sometimes as Tutors we foster this erroneous belief unintentionally by how we encourage completion of the first level.

For example, I recently had a student who really struggled to complete the work required, and would not have achieved without great input from our support team, much greater than would be the norm. However, he and his parent had been told at enrolment that this course could eventually lead to a degree....which of course it could, but not for him, yet we then had a great issue with his parent explaining that because he had passed the course he could not auomatically progress upward, because the capability just was not there.

So, you see the dilemma, do we let the students fail the lower level courses by withdrawing support, or do we give them that support to attain a lower level qualification but along with that, the knowledge that they need to appreciate that in this subject area (but usually across the
board) they cannot expect progression. It is a fine line between fostering knowledge and giving them a false sense of their own limnitations.

In many cases we fail to get the point across that they should be honest with themselves about those limitations and look for another less academic path. Sadly, in the current climate those paths are less obvious and so they forge ahead with a university application and the problems begin.

That's quite sad imo and not a decision I'd like to take!

poet123

It can be quite sad, but because for most people university now = massive debt, if we support/encourage an application when the student stands no real chance of passing then we are saddling them with the millstone of that debt needlessly.

You only have to look at some of the posts on student forums to see that many are not suited to University, yet someone, somewhere, has allowed them to believe that they are.

Oldernotwiser

poet123 wrote: »

It can be quite sad, but because for most people university now = massive debt, if we support/encourage an application when the student stands no real chance of passing then we are saddling them with the millstone of that debt needlessly.
.

Even more difficult if the HE course is run by your own college and they're keen to get more bums on seats!