Disabled Student's Allowance -- worth applying for mental health?

poet123

Of course they do and that was my point, DMG24 intimated that the hardware provisions were because she was incapable of using the Uni facilities, and so the laptop etc put her on a level playing field. I don't think that is generally or universally true, as using those items does not help with the root cause, whilst having a Mentor who will cajole, encourage and facilitate usage of the same facilities as others can only be beneficial. So, whilst those items are useful they may not be as useful to others or even desirable for many.

Indie_Kid

I don;t think you can say that unless you truely know DMG's circumstances.

Amethyst_ice

The_One_Who wrote: »

Actually, sorry, I got the figures slightly wrong. The loan would be reduced, but replaced with the loan, I assume. Using the Student Finance England site I see that as a student from a low income family I would be eligible for:

- a Maintenance Grant or Special Support Grant - worth up to £2,906
- a Maintenance Loan - worth up to £4,950 if you live away from home, or more if you study in London (although the maximum you can get is reduced if you’re getting help through the Maintenance Grant)
- a bursary from your university or college

Using the calculator (a bit convuluted!) I would get almost £6,500, plus any bursaries. Bursaries seem to be a lot more common down south than in Scotland, where they are unheard of. That is much more livable.

We all need to use technology, every one of us. We aren't all great with it either. If we cannot afford our own we are lumbered with a university one, which in my university means a long wait during exam time unless there at 9am.

If I said all disabled students are in wheelchairs, you would be pretty offended, right? That's what you are doing to non-disabled students, making one perfect almost super-human who should be able to adapt to everything in their way. You are not seeing that everyone is different in their abilities and capabilities.

Right well as a student in england ill tell you how it works. The max maintenance loan of £4,500 is what you can get living in London without any other bursaries or loans etc.

The bursaries and loans are given usually on academic performance or as a 'welcome' gift essentially..for example my uni give £800 bursay to students on low income families.

The scholarship i gained from getting 3 A's at alevel which is directly from uni so if none of those are available to you that is the uni's choice.

I get all the max loans and grants and come out with about £5,500 so presumably you would be the same. The figures are misleading in the booklets, they take away parts of the loan if you get grants and never get the full quoted figues.

Your second point- i have already told you i did my first year and half of my second as a 'normal' student with no health issues so i know perfectly well what challenges they face. The point i am arguing is the DSA helps disabled students try fit in with their peers and not stand out- this makes us slightly equal but still disadvantaged.


ps. the new look forums are not working well on my screen lol all over the place!!!

poet123

sh1305 wrote: »

I don;t think you can say that unless you truely know DMG's circumstances.

Not categorically I agree,( which is why my subsequent posts were more general) but in general, and for most of the students I have been involved with, hardware alone will not solve the problem, nor equalise the playing field, which is the point of DSA adjustments.

Additionally, there are some who want/profess to need those freebies but who in reality do not actually want to address the underlying issues, or even accept that they can be addressed.

Do you think that providing a means for someone to isloate themselves from University life/normal preer interaction is in their long term best interests? bearing in mind that for most (not all) students the aim of the degree is to be in a better position to gain employment.

dmg24

poet123 wrote: »

With respect, mentoring is just one part of my role, and I am pretty well paid thank you for my part time, term time working pattern which suits me admirably, as this is not my first career.

My point was that in addition to the aids provided, some kind of personal help would appear to be more beneficial to most students as this will assist them in becoming capable of using the facilities provided rather than remaining incapable.

I am fully aware of what is prescribed by the DSA, however, if the student is still incapable of working in a normal environment after a protracted period of study and qualification then not much has really been achieved, and they are still not on the same playing field as the others. So, it has not been a levelling exercise, if at the end you are still disadvantaged in the workplace. In your case it would appear you work as a freelance, that option is not available to everyone in every field.

So, in essence, if you (not you particularly, but any student in this position) simply use the hardware provisions of the DSA to provide a comfort zone within which to operate, and do not use other services such as the Mentoring facility, then you are not really taking advantage of the very services that may enable equality.

Surely the optimimum outcome of study for those with any disability is assistance and encouragement to overcome that difficulty, and not just aids to enable them to sit in a comfort zone? I would far rather spend time and effort with a student (who incidentally range in age from 16 to 85) than simply hand out the freebies and let them sit alone in a room and get on with it.

So, I would suggest that my understanding of the real aims of the DSA may be at odds with yours, but perhaps long term a better bet for seeing progression.

From your posts it would seem that you see the free laptop etc as a leveller. I see them as sometimes actullay precluding real progress, especially in MH scenarios. Obviously those with these types of issues don't always see that POV.

poet123 wrote: »

Of course they do and that was my point, DMG24 intimated that the hardware provisions were because she was incapable of using the Uni facilities, and so the laptop etc put her on a level playing field. I don't think that is generally or universally true, as using those items does not help with the root cause, whilst having a Mentor who will cajole, encourage and facilitate usage of the same facilities as others can only be beneficial. So, whilst those items are useful they may not be as useful to others or even desirable for many.

Again, lots of assumptions, and every single one is wrong.

Some MH problems are far too complex for a mentor to be able to make any kind of valid contribution. Indeed, in some cases (especially where the mentor assumes far more than they know), the input of a mentor can be counterproductive.

I would seriously consider your preconceptions of those with mental health problems. I am concerned that the ideas you have could affect those that you believe you are helping, as if you are so judgmental with them, you could be doing quite the opposite.

poet123

poet123 wrote: »

With respect, mentoring is just one part of my role, and I am pretty well paid thank you for my part time, term time working pattern which suits me admirably, as this is not my first career.

My point was that in addition to the aids provided, some kind of personal help would appear to be more beneficial to most students as this will assist them in becoming capable of using the facilities provided rather than remaining incapable.

I am fully aware of what is prescribed by the DSA, however, if the student is still incapable of working in a normal environment after a protracted period of study and qualification then not much has really been achieved, and they are still not on the same playing field as the others. So, it has not been a levelling exercise, if at the end you are still disadvantaged in the workplace. In your case it would appear you work as a freelance, that option is not available to everyone in every field.

So, in essence, if you (not you particularly, but any student in this position) simply use the hardware provisions of the DSA to provide a comfort zone within which to operate, and do not use other services such as the Mentoring facility, then you are not really taking advantage of the very services that may enable equality.

Surely the optimimum outcome of study for those with any disability is assistance and encouragement to overcome that difficulty, and not just aids to enable them to sit in a comfort zone? I would far rather spend time and effort with a student (who incidentally range in age from 16 to 85) than simply hand out the freebies and let them sit alone in a room and get on with it.

So, I would suggest that my understanding of the real aims of the DSA may be at odds with yours, but perhaps long term a better bet for seeing progression.

From your posts it would seem that you see the free laptop etc as a leveller. I see them as sometimes actullay precluding real progress, especially in MH scenarios. Obviously those with these types of issues don't always see that POV.

poet123 wrote: »

Not categorically I agree,( which is why my subsequent posts were more general) but in general, and for most of the students I have been involved with, hardware alone will not solve the problem, nor equalise the playing field, which is the point of DSA adjustments.

Additionally, there are some who want/profess to need those freebies but who in reality do not actually want to address the underlying issues, or even accept that they can be addressed.

Do you think that providing a means for someone to isloate themselves from University life/normal preer interaction is in their long term best interests? bearing in mind that for most (not all) students the aim of the degree is to be in a better position to gain employment.

dmg24 wrote: »

Again, lots of assumptions, and every single one is wrong.

Some MH problems are far too complex for a mentor to be able to make any kind of valid contribution. Indeed, in some cases (especially where the mentor assumes far more than they know), the input of a mentor can be counterproductive.

I would seriously consider your preconceptions of those with mental health problems. I am concerned that the ideas you have could affect those that you believe you are helping, as if you are so judgmental with them, you could be doing quite the opposite.

I dont have any preconceptions of every MH issue, I have a plethora of experience and quals in the field, enough to understand that some people are not able to debate a subject which is too close to home without resorting to snide digs and sarcasm.

So, for that reason, and also because you are correct in stating that I do not know enough about your particular issues (and how they affect your ability to take plain speaking) I will take the personal aspect out of this commentary. Initially I responded to a comment you made, the rest of the comment was general and borne out of experience, both personal and professional.

In general,:D how can only giving a student the tools to isolate themselves be a way to move forward or to ensure that in addition to a degree the student leaves University with good employment prospects?

If we accept that every student with MH issues who receives DSA funded hardware should never be encouraged by a Mentor to try to integrate (with appropriate support from trained staff)then where do they go after university? Assuming we are working from the premise that a degree is a stepping stone towards a career, and not solely for personal development.

My point was that a package consisting of a laptop etc, does not level the playing field, and for some people it is actually not beneficial. If that does not apply to you, fine,(if you read my posts I did not contend it was universal) but you cannot accurately or fairly negate my professional experience on the basis of your own personal and possibly blinkered view.

Indie_Kid

How does giving equipment isloate a student? I said earlier that I have issues with lights. When I was at college, the other students needed the lights; but I couldn't deal with them. (I asked if I could wear a baseball cap and got told it was fine - still didn't fully help)

I can't work in the library for that reason - a laptop means I can work in my room.

poet123

sh1305 wrote: »

How does giving equipment isloate a student? I said earlier that I have issues with lights. When I was at college, the other students needed the lights; but I couldn't deal with them. (I asked if I could wear a baseball cap and got told it was fine - still didn't fully help)

I can't work in the library for that reason - a laptop means I can work in my room.

Because if you are working in your room due to the lights or other "environmental" issues that is one thing, but if you are doing it because you have mental health issues which prevent you interacting with others or coping with the hubub of a library, then simply giving you the wherewithall to withdraw from Uni life is not helpful imo.

Your issue with lights and how you overcame it is an example of you adapting to the situation and being proactive, rather than letting your condition prevent you from being in a lecture room situation.

Indie_Kid

What about those who can't cope in a lecture room? Do we just say "sorry" and chuck them out of uni?

Actually that's illegal - unless the person is physically or mentally unable to carry on with the course and no reasonable adjustments can be made.

poet123

sh1305 wrote: »

What about those who can't cope in a lecture room? Do we just say "sorry" and chuck them out of uni?

Actually that's illegal - unless the person is physically or mentally unable to carry on with the course and no reasonable adjustments can be made.

Of course it is illegal, and quite rightly so, and of course I am not advocating that. Re-read my posts and see what I am advocating before starting to have an argument about something which is not there.

Out of interest, if they can't cope with lectures, will a laptop help that? and similarly, as lecture attendance is a requirement of most courses, how could that be best achieved? with more hardware? or is it likelier to be achieved by physical personal support?