Disabled Student's Allowance -- worth applying for mental health?

Indie_Kid

bitsandpieces wrote: »

The One Who - have you tried asking local libraries what books they can order in? This can often give you surprisingly good access to texts, though it isn't a substitute for a proper university library.

I agree. When I was at college, they said they could do this if it was required. (it was more of a format issue for me; than "I need a book they don't have")

poet123

dmg24 wrote: »

No, your opinions are not justified and they are ill thought out. I did not ask that you queried my capabilities, I asked why you thought I should not be entitled to my DSA provisions. My difficulties are not in debate, they have been confirmed by a psychiatrist. I trust you are not suggesting that you know better than a senior consultant?

Back to the drawing board then cirrusmp, why should someone who is incapable of using university facilities be put at a disadvantage to those who are capable?

If you, or anyone else with MH issues avoids using the facilities at the Uni in favour of isolating yourself and using the personal facilities afforded you by the DSA are you not putting up barriers to employment? If you are incapable of using public facilities how will that sit with future employers? in fact how will you be employable?

Surely a much better, and more inclusive way of addressing this kind of issue would be by providing a Mentor who would support and encourage such students to gradually integrate and become capable of using Uni facilities rather than just dole out aids which do not equate to the reality of an employment situation.

Indie_Kid

poet123 wrote: »

If you, or anyone else with MH issues avoids using the facilities at the Uni in favour of isolating yourself and using the personal facilities afforded you by the DSA are you not putting up barriers to employment? If you are incapable of using public facilities how will that sit with future employers? in fact how will you be employable?

Surely a much better, and more inclusive way of addressing this kind of issue would be by providing a Mentor who would support and encourage such students to gradually integrate and become capable of using Uni facilities rather than just dole out aids which do not equate to the reality of an employment situation.

It's not that simple though.

People with MH issues don't just decide to avoid something - it can bring on panic attacks (which are hell) or bring back bad memories.

poet123

I understand that, but my point is that even though these items are available they will not solve the problem, they are a sticking plaster over the wound. To be of any real help the issue needs to be addressed, and assisting a student to isolate themselves is not how that will be achieved.

I mentor students in an FE College and whilst we do provide aids, we also provide support so that the student can use the facilities available to others, we are there during panic attacks, we travel on buses if necessary, we support in the workplacements. We try to get the student to move forward, not facilitate their isolation.

Amethyst_ice

The_One_Who wrote: »

Using figures from SFE, I would be eligible for almost £8,000. Bit of a difference. I would gladly pay tuition fees if I meant I could move out.

Whaaat!!!! where did that figure come from? I get the maximun maintenace loan at around £3,570! Thats in england! How did you get that figure??

I get a maintenance grant on top of that at around £1,000

Together with a few bursaries i live off £5,500 a year- ON MY OWN..thats rent and bills and all the rest.

My rent is £300 a month and i manage. But i am not questioning your reasons etc

just thats what i have to stretch out and my disabilities mean i have to pay more for specialist food, hospital trips (that is over an hour away for the treatment i need)...so DSA enables me to just live and attend uni

If you go to a DSA assessment you'll see how thorough they are and how long the whole process is. Plus if any time you quit your course you have to give it all back.

As a historian and archaeologist id love to ditch technology but all my things have to be in word process format, we have to give powerpoint presentations and i have to do a lot of analytical things using complex programs so i need the laptop. Lots of it is work that would take too long to do in uni as well..the world pretty much expects everyone to have an own com putor- as sad as that is.

dmg24

poet123 wrote: »

I understand that, but my point is that even though these items are available they will not solve the problem, they are a sticking plaster over the wound. To be of any real help the issue needs to be addressed, and assisting a student to isolate themselves is not how that will be achieved.

I mentor students in an FE College and whilst we do provide aids, we also provide support so that the student can use the facilities available to others, we are there during panic attacks, we travel on buses if necessary, we support in the workplacements. We try to get the student to move forward, not facilitate their isolation.

With respect, you are talking as if I was one of your sixteen year old FE students. I am far from it, and am able to work in such a way that suits my condition. I do project management work, as and when I can. It pays well, and as such I do not have to work often. Sounds pretty employable to me ... Please remind me how much mentors earn?!

You also misunderstand the purpose of DSA, it is not there to cure a health condition, it is there to put a disabled person on an equal footing.

I would suggest that as a mentor you should know to get your facts straight, rather than making wholly incorrect assumptions.

The_One_Who

bitsandpieces wrote: »

Treating people equally isn't necessarily fair. If all lectures on a course are held up a couple of flights of stairs, this could exclude many wheelchair users - even if they are treated entirely equally. If exams are required to be handwritten, equal treatment would prevent those who can't write by hand from completing a course. In order to achieve a fairer outcome, it can be necessary to acknowledge some differences between people and make appropriate adjustments.

I also think there's a danger of confusing 'need' and 'would find much preferable'. While many people prefer to work at particular times, healthy people this can be got to work to different schedules with appropriate motivation - many people who aren't keen on mornings join the military, for example, and they do adjust. I'm not a morning person - but when needs-be I will participate well in a 9am meeting or even (*shudder*) a 'working breakfast'. This is very different from - for example - taking strong painkillers which make one sleep for 15hrs/day. Likewise, I'm really struggling to see why typical students need a laptop - it wasn't that long ago when they were too costly for most to afford but students still coped. Many students today don't have laptops and still do very well.

The One Who - have you tried asking local libraries what books they can order in? This can often give you surprisingly good access to texts, though it isn't a substitute for a proper university library.

A laptop, or at least a private computer, can allow students to not need to travel two hours each way just to use a computer. It makes things a lot easier. No, I'm not paying money for my local library to order books in for me when I can get them for free in the university library. Would you expect to pay if you cannot get to a library?

Lecture theatres should have wheelchair access, all of the ones I know of have. Again, I'm all for adjustments to help.

Amethyst_ice wrote: »

Whaaat!!!! where did that figure come from? I get the maximun maintenace loan at around £3,570! Thats in england! How did you get that figure??

I get a maintenance grant on top of that at around £1,000

Together with a few bursaries i live off £5,500 a year- ON MY OWN..thats rent and bills and all the rest.

My rent is £300 a month and i manage. But i am not questioning your reasons etc

just thats what i have to stretch out and my disabilities mean i have to pay more for specialist food, hospital trips (that is over an hour away for the treatment i need)...so DSA enables me to just live and attend uni

If you go to a DSA assessment you'll see how thorough they are and how long the whole process is. Plus if any time you quit your course you have to give it all back.

As a historian and archaeologist id love to ditch technology but all my things have to be in word process format, we have to give powerpoint presentations and i have to do a lot of analytical things using complex programs so i need the laptop. Lots of it is work that would take too long to do in uni as well..the world pretty much expects everyone to have an own com putor- as sad as that is.

Actually, sorry, I got the figures slightly wrong. The loan would be reduced, but replaced with the loan, I assume. Using the Student Finance England site I see that as a student from a low income family I would be eligible for:

- a Maintenance Grant or Special Support Grant - worth up to £2,906
- a Maintenance Loan - worth up to £4,950 if you live away from home, or more if you study in London (although the maximum you can get is reduced if you’re getting help through the Maintenance Grant)
- a bursary from your university or college

Using the calculator (a bit convuluted!) I would get almost £6,500, plus any bursaries. Bursaries seem to be a lot more common down south than in Scotland, where they are unheard of. That is much more livable.

We all need to use technology, every one of us. We aren't all great with it either. If we cannot afford our own we are lumbered with a university one, which in my university means a long wait during exam time unless there at 9am.

If I said all disabled students are in wheelchairs, you would be pretty offended, right? That's what you are doing to non-disabled students, making one perfect almost super-human who should be able to adapt to everything in their way. You are not seeing that everyone is different in their abilities and capabilities.

Indie_Kid

The_One_Who wrote: »

A If I said all disabled students are in wheelchairs, you would be pretty offended, right? That's what you are doing to non-disabled students, making one perfect almost super-human who should be able to adapt to everything in their way. You are not seeing that everyone is different in their abilities and capabilities.

No-one has said that.

You do realise how ignorant you come across as?

poet123

dmg24 wrote: »

With respect, you are talking as if I was one of your sixteen year old FE students. I am far from it, and am able to work in such a way that suits my condition. I do project management work, as and when I can. It pays well, and as such I do not have to work often. Sounds pretty employable to me ... Please remind me how much mentors earn?!

You also misunderstand the purpose of DSA, it is not there to cure a health condition, it is there to put a disabled person on an equal footing.

I would suggest that as a mentor you should know to get your facts straight, rather than making wholly incorrect assumptions.

With respect, mentoring is just one part of my role, and I am pretty well paid thank you for my part time, term time working pattern which suits me admirably, as this is not my first career.

My point was that in addition to the aids provided, some kind of personal help would appear to be more beneficial to most students as this will assist them in becoming capable of using the facilities provided rather than remaining incapable.

I am fully aware of what is prescribed by the DSA, however, if the student is still incapable of working in a normal environment after a protracted period of study and qualification then not much has really been achieved, and they are still not on the same playing field as the others. So, it has not been a levelling exercise, if at the end you are still disadvantaged in the workplace. In your case it would appear you work as a freelance, that option is not available to everyone in every field.

So, in essence, if you (not you particularly, but any student in this position) simply use the hardware provisions of the DSA to provide a comfort zone within which to operate, and do not use other services such as the Mentoring facility, then you are not really taking advantage of the very services that may enable equality.

Surely the optimimum outcome of study for those with any disability is assistance and encouragement to overcome that difficulty, and not just aids to enable them to sit in a comfort zone? I would far rather spend time and effort with a student (who incidentally range in age from 16 to 85) than simply hand out the freebies and let them sit alone in a room and get on with it.

So, I would suggest that my understanding of the real aims of the DSA may be at odds with yours, but perhaps long term a better bet for seeing progression.

From your posts it would seem that you see the free laptop etc as a leveller. I see them as sometimes actullay precluding real progress, especially in MH scenarios. Obviously those with these types of issues don't always see that POV.

Indie_Kid

DSA does provide non-medical helpers and many people I get them. I did. (wasn't recommended; but after a few months, I decided that I probably do need one)